=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 2, no. 50 (14 December 1997) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: [1] Editorial Q & A---Previous queries [2bv] En dashes -- American usage [2ca] Word v. WordPerfect [2cb] Spelling of fatwa[h] Q & A---New queries [2cc] Spelling in German [2cd] Finding work on the internet FYI [3bj] Golden Rhubarb Trophy [5] Bookmark [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[1] Editorial ----------------------------------------------------- It's getting to be that time of the year again, and I realise that many of you will be too busy calculating the cooking time of your turkey to bother about discussing editorial matters. If, however, you do find time to send any messages, I will publish an issue next week. If not, I'd like to wish you all a very merry Christmas, and EDline will return in the new year. Jane Kerr ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------------- ** [2bv] En dashes -- American usage Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Lionel Browne, Lionel_Browne@sand-con.demon.co.uk Ralph Hancock wrote: > In the British version of Word 97, if you type two hyphens they > turn into a proper en dash character -- part of the AutoCorrect > feature, and set by default when you install Word. Is this a > feature of the British edition only? I don't know, but it's also a feature of Word 7.0, and although I find it useful most of the time, there are occasions when I want to turn it off, and can't. It's not listed in the AutoCorrect window, or anywhere else that I can find. What's worse, although [space hyphen hyphen space] produces a spaced en dash, [hyphen hyphen] without spaces either side produces an em dash - just what you don't want when (for example) you're typing page spans in references. --------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk In Word 8 (Word97), you can turn off the hyphens--en dash feature in Tools-AutoCorrect, then select the AutoFormat as you Type tab, and remove the tick from the "Symbol characters with symbols" box. I think the same is true of Word 7. --------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 From: Lionel Browne, Lionel_Browne@sand-con.demon.co.uk No - it's not listed in Word 7. [...] Ah-hah! Contrary to what I would expect, turning off "Symbol Characters with Symbols" doesn't turn off such things as --> = arrow, :-) = smiley face and so on (which _are_ listed under AutoCorrect), but it _does_ turn off -- = en dash! In which case, what _else_ does it turn off? --------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 From: Mary Warren, mwarren@astra.global.net.uk Hannah Hyam wrote: > It would appear that British and American usage is indeed > identical ... Sorry, at this late stage, to throw a spanner in the works, but, according to Karen Judd in Copyediting: A Practical Guide, this isn't so. She lists the usage of en-dashes as: 1. In ranges: to indicate inclusive page numbers, times or dates, and references. 2. In compound adjectives: where one term in a compound adjective consists of two words or a hyphenated word (e.g. postWorld War II recession; high-incomelow-income ratio) But she goes on: "DO NOT use an en dash in simple compound words, e.g. the Taft-Hartley Act; an input-output analysis." This would seem to be confirmed in fact by Chicago M/S which says that: "The en-dash is also used in place of a hyphen in a compound adjective when one of the elements of the adjective is an open compound (such as New York) or when two or more of the elements are hyphenated compounds: New YorkLondon flight postCivil War period quasi-publicquasi-judicial body" In other words, the en-dash in the New YorkLondon flight example is not being used in the British sense, but because one of the two adjectival elements, New York, is an open compound. However, Scientific Style and Format (CBE manual) quite clearly states that "the en-dash can be used to link 2 words or phrases representing items of equal rank and 2-word concepts (e.g. main northsouth avenues; gasliquid chromatography. Its jacket blurb says that ''As English has become the international language of science, SSF recognizes both American and British preferences and in some cases recommends one usage over another. It can therefore be used to settle cases of disputed international usage..." So you pays your money and takes your choice! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2ca] Word v. WordPerfect Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Patrick Lowery, plowery@mpg.com Ian Kingston gave an excellent summary of why WordPerfect is better than Word, and I agree with his conclusion. One small nit to pick, though: As noted in Grapevine, "you can't search, in Word, for (say) 'H2O' and replace it with the '2' subscripted. This is simple in WordPerfect." You *can* do this in Word. You have to format the term correctly one time, with the 2 subscripted, and then block off the complete term and copy it to the clipboard. Then execute a Find and Replace with H2O in the "Find" field and "Clipboard Contents" in the "Replace" field (it's one of the choices on the list when you click the Special button). --------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 From: William Johnstone, uz373@victoria.tc.ca Having used both processors practically simultaneously since their debuts, I feel honour-bound to point out that WordPerfect (at least the version I work with) still doesn't let you split the screen, so you can see, for example, the top & bottom of what you're working on -- handy for writers, though less so for editors. Something else about WP that bugs me is its annoying desire to sense a mouseclick as initiating a block command, like a move, instead of simply letting me move the cursor. Perhaps it's really a mouse problem. Anyone got a mousetrap? --------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but in my version of WP (8), you can change how the mouse selects text in Tools-Settings- Environment, so when you click and drag, it selects one character at a time, rather than whole words. And just to add to the debate, one thing I really like about WP is its ability to arrange two open documents side by side, instead of horizontally - it makes comparison of two documents so much easier. It doesn't seem to be possible to do this in Word. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cb] Spelling of fatwa[h] Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com Anne Waddingham wrote: > Can anyone plse tell me what is the 'correct' spelling of > fatwa/fatwah? (I realise this is probably a transliteration > issue.) Many thanks. Chambers Dictionary gives both, but puts "fatwa" first Concise Oxford only gives "fatwa". So does the ITP-Nelson Canadian Dict. Merriam-Webster 3 (1971) doesn't list it. So the majority verdict is "fatwa", but you can use "fatwah" if you or your au prefer it. --------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Judith Willson, jwillson.demon.co.uk I think this is a pretty uncontroversial transliteration issue - it's more correctly transliterated fatwa. The Arabic spelling does not have an 'h' letter on the end, nor is the word pronounced with that sort of breathy 'ah'. I suppose the 'h' has been added to suggest a long 'a' pronunciation, differentiated from the first, short 'a'. An Arabist would transliterate as 'a' with a macron on (and reserve 'ah' for a different kind of word-ending). OED gives fatwa, too, though, so even in non-specialized usage there seems no reason to use fatwah. --------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Erica Rolfe, erolfe@pi.net I have been checking in various source books from a degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies long ago and think you are safe to stick with fatwa. It is used without the 'h' by Hitti, Gibbs, Rodinson and others. I can't find anyone using the 'h'. The Arabic spelling ends in the shortened ' alif (), which I can't reproduce here (a 'ya' with no dots). For pronounciation this seems to be transliterated as 'a' with a dash on top. Cowan's 'Modern Literary Arabic' says: "In Arabic phonetics the sound groups 'awa' and 'ayu', which only occur at the end of a word, are contracted to 'a' [with dash on top]....Note that the 'ya' is vowelless and does not have the two dots. As the accent is never on the last syllable of the written word, this 'a' [with dash on top] tends to be pronounced short ....hence its Arabic name 'alif maqsura or shortened ' alif." Hope that is of help - someone to quote if the author argues, at least! --------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 From: Naomi Laredo, naomi@smallprt.demon.co.uk It is indeed a transliteration issue. Making any sort of generalisation about Arabic is fraught with dangers, but here goes: The transliteration 'ah' is conventionally used to represent the ending of many (feminine, I think) Arabic nouns. However, as the 'h' is not (I believe) pronounced, a perfectly good transcription (as opposed to transliteration) is 'a'. So which you use is a matter of house style if you are using the word as an 'English' word, or a matter of consistency if you are transcribing/ transliterating several Arabic words in your publication. See the 'despairing note' from T.E. Lawrence's editor in the same issue of EDline! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cc] Spelling in German Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 From: Hazel Coleman, HKEColeman@aol.com Can anyone enlighten me as to why in German the letters "ue", "oe" and "ae" are sometimes used instead of the letters "u", "o" and "a" with umlauts? Was it simply a solution to the problem of international correspondence using typewriters without accent keys? If so, is it now appropriate always to change them to their umlauted equivalents, or should I be wary of pitfalls? The Chicago Manual (14th edn) says that "Ue" etc. is acceptable in capitals but "lowercase letters should not be so set"; the Oxford Writers' Dictionary says sternly that the umlauted letters "may *not* be replaced by 'Ae, ae' [etc.] (except in some proper names)"; Butcher says that "ae" may be met with "in pre-1900 works" (which perhaps scuppers my typewriter theory) and the umlauted letters "are preferred to 'ae' etc. where appropriate". The typescript I am working on is a novel that spans the century, but focuses on the Second World War. The German words are typed as "ae" etc. throughout (but this may be because it was typed on a manual typewriter without accent keys!). I have come across two proper names so far: the Voelkischer Beobachter and a Herr Mueller, who seems to have been a high-ranking officer in the Wehrmacht. Would I be wrong to change either of these? Another query is simpler (though I am ashamed of myself for not having learnt the language): what is the plural of Bierkeller? Is it Bierkeller? If so, what solutions would other people suggest for dialogue in which this term is used in the plural? Anglicise it to Bierkellers or even beer halls? The author uses Bierkelleren, which I suspect is not correct. I'd also like to sound out people's views on italicisation and capitalisation in dialogue. I think in a novel italic terms can be distracting and irritating if they occur frequently, and unless there is possible misunderstanding I tend to make most foreign terms roman. I'm less certain about the question of capitalisation of nouns in German. Would other people retain them in a novel, or make them lower case? A final thought: is anyone else irritated when, in a novel or play, foreign words are sprinkled into a dialogue that is supposedly between two characters speaking that same language to each other? It annoys me every time! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cd] Finding work on the internet Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 From: Sarah Harley, yelrah@csd.uwm.edu Are there any resources for finding editing work via the internet? ---[3] FYI ----------------------------------------------------------- ** [3bj] Golden Rhubard Trophy Date: Thur, 11 Dec 1997 From: Mary Fox, mary@mfox.demon.co.uk Denyse O'Leary wrote about the Golden Rhubarb Trophy for obfuscation. The Chelsea Building Society deserves special mention. They sent this message to all savers in their Post-tel 20-day account: "In accordance with Post-tel 20 account terms, withdrawal or transfer requests received on or after 1 October 1997 will be processed without penalty and, unless a date of withdrawal is specified, on the day of receipt." This means it is now an instant access account! ---[4] Bookmark ----------------------------------------------------- The latest Electric Editors Site of the Month is a massive site devoted to desktop publishing. It covers all the major software packages, has product reviews, discussion areas and downloadable freebies, among other things. Follow the link on the main resources page, at: < http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/bywater/ee_res01.htm > ---[6] Just for fun -------------------------------------------------- "Lines from the slushpile", no. 13 "Spider Jackson?" I scoffed. "Spider Jackson? He wouldn't hurt a fly!" +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "Everyone needs an editor". no. 5 "The writer who can't do his job looks to his editor to do it for him, though he wouldn't dream of offering to share his royalties with that editor". -- ALFRED KNOPF +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Re: "Let's enjoy these lines". no. 1 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk My apologies to Gabriela, for failing to include the name of the author of her favourite quotations last week. It was, of course, John Keats. ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. *Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/home.htm > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1997, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997 Iain Brown =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 2.50 Next issue: 21 December 1997 (?) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=