=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 3, no. 37 (13 September 1998) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A---previous query [2en] The Fully Monty [2fb] Reference sites for audio books [2fc] African American Q & A---unanswered query [2fa] Jimmy Savile Q & A---new query [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs FYI [3dc] ISSN Online Business matters---previous posting [4bi] Taxation at source [Offshoot of [4ba] Hourly versus fixed rates of pay [4bj] VAT threshold [5] Bookmarks [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------- ** [2en] The Fully Monty Date: Mon, 7 Sept 1998 From: Merle Read, ReadMA@aol.com Postscript to the full Monty thread [see EDline 3.30--3.32] I swear I heard a tv pundit saying in a discussion of prize money that game shows would have to "up the Monty..." +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fa] Jimmy Savile Date: Thurs, 27 Aug 1998 From: Anne Waddingham, Waddingham@compuserve.com This query is along the lines of the Domestos/Dettol one: older UK TV viewers will remember 'Jim'll Fix It' back in the 70s(?) hosted by the inimitable (now Sir) Jimmy Savile. Of course one of the things he was known for was his trademark cigar. Do I remember him waving that cigar about on his show? It seems surprising that he set such a bad example to the nation's kids which is why I wonder if my memory is playing tricks on me. It certainly would be frowned on now. Can anyone confirm a definite sighting of the Savile cigar on the children's programme? My American editor is about to quote Savile's defence of cigars (published recently in the Independent) in the journal Tobacco Control and I'd hate to have misinformed him on this point. PS Did anyone reading this get 'fixed' by Jim? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fb] Reference sites for audio books Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Anne Waddingham, Waddingham@compuserve.com Richard Benskin wrote: > I am a book narrator. I have been narrating all types of books > for blind students at some local colleges on a voluntary basis, > and now plan to expand my talent to full-time as a business. > > Are there any reference sites your contributors know of to > assist me in getting my demo tapes to the right production > people? Also, are there agents who specialize in talent, other > than authors? As no-one answered this query in the last EdLine, here's my two penn'orth worth. Richard didn't say where he lives - if in the UK, then the obvious body to contact is the Royal National Institute for the Blind. Their homepage is < http://www.rnib.org.uk/welcome1.htm > They have an extensive library of talking books and periodicals and add to them all the time. I'm sorry I don't know any particular name to contact. Even if he isn't UK based, they might still be interested as they like to have a range of suitable 'local' accents, depending on the publication. For example, many years ago, my mother (who is Devonian) was asked to record a Thomas Hardy novel for the RNIB. (OK I know Hardy is Dorset but the grockles in the RNIB just think of it all as 'Mummerset'.) Regrettably she declined however, or I might have been able to give Richard more info. Incidentally, if you do a search on 'national', 'institute', 'blind' you get loads of international institutions, that might be worth contacting. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fc] African American Date: Tues, 8 Sep 1998 From: Jane Lyle, jlyle@indiana.edu Jane Kerr wrote: > This one is addressed specifically to our American subscribers, > or, indeed, to any US English specialists on the list. Should > the expression "African American" have a space, a hyphen or an > en-rule? My American author variously uses a space and a hyphen. Most of the authors in our black studies series prefer "African American" these days, so that is our house style--and it is also recommended in the Chicago Manual of Style. If an individual author strongly preferred to hyphenate the compound, I would, of course, follow his or her wishes. But in the case of an inconsistent author such as yours, or in the case of an author with no strong feelings about the hyphen, I would always go with "African American"--as well as "Japanese American," "Asian American," "Mexican American," and the like. Those who feel strongly about using the space instead of a hyphen feel that in this way the compound signifies that African Americans are Americans first, and "African" merely adds descriptive information. "African-American," on the other hand, seems to suggest that they are both Africans and Americans at the same time, thus a hybrid of sorts, and somehow not true Americans. ----------------------- Date: Tues, 8 Sept 1998 From: Ruth E. Thaler-Carter, rthalerc@aol.com In a newsletter I write and edit for the United Negro College Fund (UNCF), I hyphenate African American when it's used as a modifier and don't when it's a noun: "... African-American students" vs "... is African American." However, the trend I'm seeing is never to hyphenate; I just read something last week justifying this but I can't recall the rationale. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Bill Johnstone, uz373@victoria.tc.ca The Random House Webster's uses a hyphen, which is unusual for them. Our Hansard Style Guide keeps it two words, however, as French Canadian (both noun and adjective). Personally, I'd be inclined to hyphenate only the adjective, as in African-American combs. An aside: I'm now completing a report for our Canadian gov't on the perceptions that local people of non-European ancestry have of our police. Unlike the U.S. analogue, African Canadian is interpreted by some people here -- including those referring to themselves -- to mean an immigrant from Africa, not just someone of African ancestry. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Pete Feely, pfeely@ncte.org I have seen all three used (and sanctioned) by various publications. Our house (The National Council of Teachers of English) style calls for a space, in line with Maggio's _The Dictionary of Bias-free Usage_ (Oryx 1991). We leave open all references to an American's roots (Italian American, Korean American, etc.), even when used attributively (e.g., Mexican American cuisine). Incidentally, I've heard some individuals within groups (don't want to generalize too much here!) feel like "hyphenated" or marginalized persons when they read those expressions using hyphens, possibly feeling that designating them as anything other than American unduely attracts attention to what shouldn't be important. Anyone else hear this? ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 10 Sept 1998 From: Jacqueline Taylor, jtaylor@baan.nl If I'm not mistaken, African-American should be hyphenated at all times. For example: An African-American (referring to an American of African descent). An African-American tradition (where the word African-American is used as an adjective). Hope this answers your question! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 From: Kathy Stackhouse, 110075.1153@compuserve.com Does anyone know the origin of the expression "mind one's Ps and Qs?" Is it basic penmanship? ---[3] FYI ----------------------------------------------------- ** [3dc] ISSN Online Date: Thurs, 10 Sept 1998 From: Pierre Godefroy, godefroy@ISSN.ORG The ISSN Register is now available on the Web The ISSN Register was already available on CD-ROM (ISSN Compact): ISSN Online is now (as from August 1998) one of the fundamental bibliographic resources available over the Web. The ISSN Register is a comprehensive tool which can be used for several purposes: - world-wide bibliographic searches on serial publications - cataloguing (records can be downloaded and re-used for specific purposes) - constitution of controlled authority files based on ISSN (database management) The ISSN (International Standard Serial Number) is universally accepted as the prime means of identifying serials (journals, magazines, periodicals of any kind), a vital first step for the management of the articles or contributions they contain. Its use is essential throughout the information chain, from publisher (and from the author of every single contribution or article) to the reader, through document delivery utilities, abstracting and indexing services, subscription agents, libraries, union catalogues, newsagents...., for the efficient management of research, ordering and cataloguing. To date, some 900,000 serials published in 180 countries have been registered and have had an ISSN (International Standard Serial Number) assigned. The ISSN network, an intergovernmental organization, is based in 67 National Centres which obtain data at source in the framework of national bibliographies and legal deposit. Each year, it identifies more than 40,000 publications. The ISSN International Centre in Paris, which is responsible for the coordination of the network, registers itself titles published by international institutions (United Nations, Unesco, OECD, European Community...) and international associations (scientific unions, learned societies, etc.) i.e. currently more than 13,000 titles. The sustained growth of electronic serials is reflected in ISSN Online. More and more e-serials (whether online or on different magnetic or optical media) are being added to the ISSN Register. ISSN Online is updated frequently (at least on a monthly basis). Each month some 4,000 new records are added to the ISSN Register and thousands of amendments and corrections are input. All the additions to the ISSN Register may be searched and browsed separately. ISSN Online is a truly multilingual database: some 150 different languages are represented in the ISSN Register. Non Latin scripts are transliterated into the Latin alphabet according to the corresponding ISO standards. Special characters and diacritics are rendered through Unicode characters and displayed on most available browsers. ISSN Online is available to all Internet users on a free trial basis. The trial period expires after one month, during which up to 40 search requests may be launched, 400 records visualised and 10 records downloaded (in their original ISO 2709 exchange format). Just fill up the trial request form < http://www.issn.org/online/trial.html > and you will receive your temporary password by e-mail. ISSN Online is available on a subscription basis, either yearly or monthly. Please refer to the subscription page < http://www.issn.org/onlineprice.html > for more information. For more information about ISSN Online, please contact us at the following address: < online@issn.org > Your comments and suggestions will be highly appreciated. Pierre Godefroy Assistant to the Director / Assistant du Directeur ISSN International Centre / Centre international de l'ISSN 20 rue Bachaumont, 75002 Paris, France ---[4] Business matters ---------------------------------------- ** [4bi] Taxation at source [Offshoot of [4ba] Hourly versus fixed rates of pay Date: Tues, 8 Sept 1998 From: Katie Lewis, Katie@farnfilm.demon.co.uk To continue the story from my previous message, and Nancy Duin's contribution, I've just submitted a second invoice to the author, who promised to sort things out with Middlesex University for me. He's found out that all should be well if I send them my letterhead (what a farce! - it's supposed to prove I'm a business, I think), so that they then list me as a supplier. I had also made the mistake of invoicing the author at his home address, since that's where he's largely based, being semi- retired. I've resubmitted the invoice addressed to him at the university and am now sitting back with bated breath. I did receive an advice of payment after the first invoice which gives me an employee number. Thanks for the warning, Nancy - this could become very interesting (or rather very boring). The implication of the status enquiry is that every single job should be investigated to establish its self-employed status. If we all went by the book and submitted every job for such an enquiry, the system would soon be on its knees. How about it?! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4bj] VAT threshold Date: Tues, 8 Sept 1998 From: Lionel Browne, Lionel_Browne@sand-con.demon.co.uk Liza Weinkove wrote: > Have any of you read about the consultation paper that has been > issued this summer by [UK] Customs & Excise on the VAT > threshold? An article in the Sunday Times of 6th September > suggests that, reading between the lines, they are preparing > the ground to introduce a big cut in the threshold, currently > 50,000 GBP a year. It really isn't a problem, provided your bookkeeping is set up to handle it. All you need is an extra column in your sales day book, and similarly an extra column on both sides of your cashbook; then make sure that you are on the VAT cash accounting scheme, so that you have to account only for VAT actually received or paid out. Our bookkeeping system is entirely manual (and handwritten), but I keep a one-page Excel spreadsheet ready set up to work out the VAT once a quarter. With that, and the Windows calculator (about the only time I use it), each quarterly VAT return takes about a quarter of an hour to calculate. There's certainly no reason why your accountant should get involved in it, and hence no reason for any additional charges from him/her. By the way, don't get tempted into registering for the annual accounting scheme: there is no financial advantage for those of us on modest incomes (i.e. freelances), since we still have to pay quarterly. > By the way, in the Sunday Times article they refer to it as > Vat - is this more correct than VAT? No: according to HM Customs and Excise it is VAT, and they ought to know. ----------------------- Date: Tues, 8 Sept 1998 From: Josephine Bacon, bacon@langservice.com I am astonished that editors, who use a lot of computer equipment, stationery etc., should not rush to register for VAT even if they are below the threshold. There is nothing for the accountant to do, provided you go for "cash accounting" which means you only pay when you are paid. Not only will you be able to claim VAT back on all your office purchases but you will in practice be getting a loan of two months' VAT money (if you pay quarterly), since you are collecting money and do not have to hand it in for three months. The UK is the only country that works VAT in this way. The form is a very simple piece of arithmetic and if you keep proper receipts and invoices can be done in an hour. The advantages are huge believe me, provided you tell the truth. If you don't - well the last "client" of mine who didn't is doing 18 months! ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 10 Sept 1998 From: Philip Weston, phil.weston@btinternet.com Don't be frightened of VAT, it will save you money! If you are registered you can claim back the 17.5% VAT on ALL your purchases: computers (a GBP 2000 system will give you GBP 350 back), other capital expenditure, stationery, phone and Fax bills, petrol if you claim for travel, any household expenses you claim (electricity, ...), etc. I reckon I am about GBP1000 ahead of the VAT man each year! It is very simple to organise -- you just need an extra column in your income and expenditure details, and tot it up each month. Then each quarter you fill in a 1-page form and send the VAT due as a cheque or pay at your bank (the VAT man even supplies you with paying in slips!). I reckon it takes me about 30 min per month and 1 hour each quarter. There is no need to involve your accountant, it is too simple -- just make sure he/she understands what you have done when you send him/her your annual accounts for processing. It is no trouble for your clients. All publishers are registered for VAT and simply claim back the VAT you charge them. It costs them nothing. Incidentally, you do not need to have a turnover above the VAT threshold to register. If you have a lot of expenses it is worth registering for VAT anyway so you can claim back all the VAT. On the last point, HM Customs & Excise call it VAT not Vat, so I guess the former is correct. Don't delay, join today!! ---[5] Bookmarks ----------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Sept 1998 From: Gabriela Tenner, getenner@mail.retina.ar Two bookmarks that are good news, I think, for our editor job. < http://www.plainlanguage.gov/ > < http://www.sec.gov/pdf/handbook.pdf > ---[6] Just for fun ------------------------------------------- Run that by me again? no. 2 Date: Mon, 7 Sept 1998 From: Rosemary Anderson, r.anderson@lancaster.ac.uk Mandy Macdonald suggested: > Provocatively referring to Scotland as "a small country in > which most of us are little interested" [note the fashionably > split infinitive] ... I cannot see a split infinitive in that sentence. In fact there is no infinitive in it at all, only an active verb. Are there really people working in proof reading who don't know what an infinitive is? ---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Andrew Wyllie, andwyllie@compuserve.com Laura Pomeroy said: > I hang my head in complete shame and embarrassment. Why hang your head? OK, so that which you quoted was a split indicative (I think) rather than an infinitive. Curious, isn't it, that it is only the infinitive being split that makes people reach for their outraged keyboards? It seems to me that split verbs can be unattractive, but sometimes the splitting can be essential in order to fully demonstrate the work that the adverb is doing. I've never understood why the split infinitive creates so much unhelpfullly hot debate. Isn't it sometimes far better in the interests of clarity to split the verb (even in the infinitive mood) than not to do so? (I think that this is the line that Fowler takes, for example.) Just as it is _generally_ desirable to keep subjects and verbs or verbs and objects together, there are still times when an interpolated subordinate clause can have its meaning enhanced simply by being interpolated: similarly meaning can be enhanced by judiciously splitting the verb on occasion. Or is this still a hornets' nest? I seem to remember recent correspondence in the SFEP newsletter which suggests that it is, but I still don't understand why. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Merle Read, ReadMA@aol.com Re the split infinitives thread -- I was once ticked off by a desk editor for introducing an "incorrect" split infinitive by changing a phrase something like "it easily can be shown" to "it can easily be shown", which raised my I-didn't-get-where-I-am- today-by-not-knowing-the-difference-between-an-infinitive-and-a- modal-verb hackles (though why anyone should worry about splitting an infinitive is beyond me anyway). Despite my objections some months later I was once again "corrected" for a similar "error". This is the sort of confusion that arises from grammar "rules" that have no basis in logic (or natural English) and I am very pleased to hear that the OED folk have announced that the split infinitive is OK by them. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sept 1998 From: Bernard Taylor, taylorb@earthlink.net Further to the recent (non-) split infinitive: It seems to me that this subject may have theological implications: to err is human, to forgive is divine, but, at least for some editors, ... to freely forgive may be unforgivable! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "Beguiling ideas about science", no. 22 In looking at a drop of water under a microscope, we find there are twice as many H's as O's. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "It CAN be done", no. 6 Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. --- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Iain Brown, at: i_brown@compuserve.com Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. The sections of EDline are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! [7] Miscellaneous -- odds and sods * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. * Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/home.htm > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1998, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, Iain Brown Compilation (c) 1998, The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 3.37 Next issue: 20 September 1998 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=