=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 3, no. 38 (20 September 1998) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A---previous queries [2en] The Fully Monty [2fa] Jimmy Savile [2fb] Reference sites for audio books [2fc] African American [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs Q & A---new queries [2fe] E-mail characters [2fg] Adjectives in US English Business matters---previous posting [4bj] VAT threshold Business matters---new posting [4bk] Editors' Salaries [5] Bookmarks [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------- ** [2en] The Fully Monty Date: Mon, 14 Sept 1998 From: Ruth E. Thaler-Carter, rthalerc@aol.com Full/up the monty/monte Merle Read wrote: > Postscript to the full Monty thread [see EDline 3.30--3.32] > > I swear I heard a tv pundit saying in a discussion of prize > money that game shows would have to "up the Monty..." The reference to "up(ping) the monte" refers to a card game (Three-card Monte) and has to do with raising the stakes or making something more risky. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fa] Jimmy Savile Date: Mon, 14 Sept 1998 From: Ev Charlton, Evcharlton@btinternet.com Anne Waddingham wrote: > UK TV viewers will remember 'Jim'll Fix It' back in the 70s(?) > hosted by the inimitable (now Sir) Jimmy Savile. Of course one > of the things he was known for was his trademark cigar. > > Do I remember him waving that cigar about on his show? I do remember him waving a cigar about but I cannot say if it was alight or not. Mercifully, I have not been fixed by him or anyone else in that dreadful industry they call "television". +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fb] Reference sites for audio books Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 From: Rosemary Lim, limbc64@mbox5.singnet.com.sg Richard Benskin wrote: > I am a book narrator. I have been narrating all types of books > for blind students at some local colleges on a voluntary basis, > and now plan to expand my talent to full-time as a business. > > Are there any reference sites ... to assist me ... My dissertation was on audio books for kids. UK producers generally use well-known actors, though it's not a hard and fast rule. A well-known name is not so important for US producers. Check out the following. US producers: < http://www.audiopub.org/ > UK producers: Spoken Word Publishers Association Press Enquiries: Colman Getty PR Carrington House 126-130 Regent Street London W1R 5FE Tel: 0171 439 1783 Fax 0171 439 1784 (This may be out of date, I used it in 1996 and received a listing of members) Talking Business [magazine] Square One Publishing Ltd 9/10 Barnard Mews London SW11 1QU Email: square1@dircon.co.uk Hope this helps. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fc] African American Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 From: Rosemary Lim, limbc64@mbox5.singnet.com.sg Jane Kerr wrote: > Should the expression "African American" have a space, a hyphen > or an en-rule? Pete Feely wrote: > some individuals within groups feel like "hyphenated" or > marginalized persons when they read those expressions using > hyphens, possibly ... designating them as anything other than > American unduely attracts attention to what shouldn't be > important. Anyone else hear this? I recently edited an academic book which includes a section on Chinese Americans. The rule was always use two words except when used as an adjective because of the label 'Hyphenated Americans', which implies something less than 'Full Americans'. It is a *very* sensitive issue. I assume it applies to all races and nationality groups. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 From: Geoff Barnett, geoff@healthcare-edit.demon.co.uk Kathy Stackhouse asked: > Does anyone know the origin of the expression "mind one's Ps > and Qs?" Is it basic penmanship? 'Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable' gives a number of possible derivations. It favours the confusion theory - either of children learning the alphabet being told to be careful to distinguish between the two letters, or similarly with trainee compositors when working with metal type. (Brewer makes the point that no such admonition was apparently necessary for the equally confusing b and d.) Less probable is the pints and quarts theory where accounts for the consumption of beer in public houses were tallied as p's and q's, and a customer might be told to mind them when the reckoning came. Finally it is suggested that the letters refer to the French for feet (pieds) and queues* (wigs). In the time of Louis XIV dancing teachers would caution their pupils to mind their p's and q's in case their wigs, which were very large in that period, fell off. Incidentally, ODWED's version of p's and q's is as shown here, ie lower case with apostrophes. *Perhaps someone can explain why, in my French dictionary, the word for wig is given as perruque. ----------------------- Date: Tues, 15 Sep 1998 From: Juanita Bullough, juanita.bullough@which.net There are several variants on the expression 'mind your P's and Q's' in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable - a fascinating book. ... However, my favourite explanation, albeit fanciful, is that in the France of Louis XIV, when huge wigs were in fashion, dancing masters would warn their pupils ... lest the latter [queues] fall off when bending low to make a formal bow! ----------------------- Date: Tues, 15 Sep 1998 From: Mark L. Levinson, mark@memco.co.il The FAQ of alt.english.usage is an excellent source for this kind of stuff. It says... "mind your p's and q's" This expression, meaning "be very careful to behave correctly", has been in use from the 17th century on. Theories include: an admonishment to children learning to write; an admonishment to typesetters (who had to look at the letters reversed); an admonishment to seamen not to soil their navy pea-jackets with their tarred "queues" (pigtails); "mind your pints and quarts"; "mind your prices and quality"; "mind your pieds and queues" (either feet and pigtails, or two dancing figures that had to be accurately performed); the substitution of /p/ for "qu" /kw/ in the speech of uneducated ancient Romans; or the confusion by students learning both Latin and Ancient Greek of such congates as _pente_ and _quintus_. And yes, we've heard the joke about the instruction to new sextons: "Mind your keys and pews." The most plausible explanation is the one given in the latest edition of Collins English Dictionary: an alteration of "Mind your 'please's and 'thank you's". ---------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 From: Gillian Clarke, 101625.3601@compuserve.com I have always believed this to be a way of reminding people to be courteous and remember to say please (the Ps bit) and thank you (the Q from 'k you'). My understanding of this goes WAY back, but I might have got it wrong. While on the subject of courtesy, may I remind everyone (myself included!) that it is always much appreciated when someone telephoning asks the person the other end if it is a convenient time. I try to remember to do this even when phoning family and friends - who knows what I might have interrupted! On a business front, it shows that you appreciate that the person you are calling is a busy person - s/he might be in the middle of a meeting or trying to concentrate on making sense out of an incomprehensible bit of text or waiting desperately for someone to get back to them. You aren't to know this, which is why asking first is a good idea. They might offer to ring you back and your call will be on their phone bill rather than yours. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fe] E-mail characters Date: Mon, 14 Sept 1998 From: Ev Charlton, Evcharlton@btinternet.com I have printed off the 123 Promote! special keyboard characters mentioned in Edline 3.33 as I now find myself regularly conversing with Finland - umlauts, in particular, have suddenly become essential. The instructions given certainly produce the umlaut but only in the next space, not above the letter. This is the case for both Email and HTML. As Finnish uses a number of double letters, this is confusing to say the least. The only solution I can come up with is to create a document in, say, Word and then attach it to the Email - thus defeating the whole object of Email. Does anyone have any better solution(s)? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fg] Adjectives in US English Date: Thurs, 17 Sept 1998 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk Another one for you American English experts. Is there any rule about the inclusion or omission of the -al ending on adjectives? My current text (US author) has: histologic variants pathologic identification histopathologic diagnosis hematologic malignancies etc. (I think I'm right in saying that these would all have -al on the end in UK English) but also: epidemiological evidence Is it simply a matter of authorial preference? ---[4] Business matters ---------------------------------------- ** [4bj] VAT threshold Date: Mon, 14 Sept 1998 From: Ruth E. Thaler-Carter, rthalerc@aol.com This is more "chat" than business but might provide a welcome chuckle as the work week begins. My stepdaughter lives and works in London (and now sounds far more Brit than Yank!), at a music store called HMV. Last week, she helped a U.S. customer figure out the VAT on a purchase and discovered the customer was from Baltimore. Not only that, the customer was a writer and had heard of me! I've now chatted on the phone with said customer, who is back here in Baltimore, and will meet her for lunch later this coming week. She knew my name because I did a presentation a couple of years ago at the National Federation of the Blind, where she works. Small world - and what a nice use of the VAT! ---------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 From: Caroline Mackenzie, Contextcm@aol.com Josephine Bacon wrote: > Not only will you be able to claim VAT back on all your office > purchases but you will in practice be getting a loan of two > months' VAT money (if you pay quarterly), since you are > collecting money and do not have to hand it in for three > months. The UK is the only country that works VAT in this way. I'm sorry to disabuse Josephine but here in France, it works the same way with added advantages. My VAT form is also submitted quarterly and I only pay a small % (about 2% I think) of my VAT-able income during that period (as most of my income comes from outside France, this is a piddling amount). At the end of the year, the accountant calculates exactly how much is due for the annual reassessment form and most years, I'm ahead. In effect I have a year-long loan, but the tax office take about 8 months to send a rebate! The big difference comes from the fact that in France, there's no minimum level before the VAT kicks in: it's due on every franc invoiced to a French client. At 20.6%, that's a lot - hence the high level of work done 'on the black'. What happens in other EU countries? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4bk] Editors' Salaries Date: Mon, 14 Sept 1998 From: Peter Smith, KETTRANS@compuserve.com Dear Editing Colleagues I've worked as a translator and editor in the Netherlands for approx 10 years (freelance), and am currently pursuing employment opportunities as an editor-translator within commercial organisations in Holland. I translate from Dutch into English, and edit in Br.English. I have translated and/or edited texts on a wide variety of different subject areas/disciplines including: legal, real estate, financial, marketing, safety, transport, meat technology, animal science, plant/crop physiology, management science. You name it...). What do F/T Editor-Translators earn on the open market these days in Holland (and UK - useful for comparisons)? What should I be expecting to earn/should I ask for? If you are an editor who works/has worked for a commercial company (preferably in Holland, but also UK and/or North America), then I would very much like to hear from you. What kind of 'perks', if any, are usually offered nowadays? [By 'perks' I mean items such as trav.exps., 13th mth, profit sharing, pension schemes, saving schemes, shorter working hours, car, private medical insurance). All replies will be treated in strictest confidence. If you prefer, you can call me instead on: +31 36 536 8069. Or fax me on: +31 36 536 8029. Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Peter Smith (Almere, Netherlands) ---[5] Bookmarks ----------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Sept 1998 From: Richard Harris, 100131.3564@compueserve.com AuthorLink! Publishing news, interviews, articles, resource links ... < http://www.authorlink.com/ > The Internet Sleuth Index of over 3,000 searchable databases. < http://www.isleuth.com/ > [Lifted from Inklings 4.19] ---[6] Just for fun ------------------------------------------- Run that by me again? no. 3 Date: Sun, 20 Sept 1998 From: Iain Brown, i_brown@compuserve.com ... I was sent a typescript by a retired naval officer. It was a seafaring yarn for boys, the opening sentence read: "All hands were on their toes". [From a Letter to the Editor, _The Times_, 19 Sept 1998] +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "Beguiling ideas about science", no. 23 Clouds are high flying fogs. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "It CAN be done", no. 7 Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy. --- Drillers whom Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859. ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Iain Brown, at: i_brown@compuserve.com Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. The sections of EDline are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! [7] Miscellaneous -- odds and sods * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. * Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/home.htm > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1998, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, Iain Brown Compilation (c) 1998, The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 3.38 Next issue: 27 September 1998 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=