=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 3, no. 41 (11 October 1998) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A---previous queries [2ew] Dictionaries [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs [2fe] E-mail characters [2fg] Adjectives in US English [2fh] Family matters [2fi] Web addresses for dictionaries [2fj] Punctuation and footnotes [2fk] Nautical terms [2fl] Monkeys and onions Q & A---new queries [2fm] Kilowatt hours [2fn] Technical terms in the forestry industry FYI [3dh] Editing and the Frankfurt Book Fair [3di] SFEP members Business matters---previous posting [4bl] Accountancy fees for self-assessment Business matters---unanswered posting [4bn] ECU and inter-EU business [5] Bookmarks [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------- ** [2ew] Dictionaries Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com Andrew Wyllie wrote: > But can anyone make a positive recommendation on slightly more > serious grounds, or warn me off any of the available > dictionaries? I was brought up on and still recommend Chambers. (Make sure that you get the full one without the pretty pictures.) It's the crossword puzzle solver's favourite and probably has the largest vocab. until you get to something like the Shorter Oxford. However, if you mainly work for a particular publisher his house-style may expect you to have a particular dictionary. --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Joy Burrough, burrough@bos.nl When buying a dictionary you should bear several things in mind. To begin with, are you more interested in a scholarly diachronic dictionary, which will give you an indication of how meanings have evolved, but will tend to be conservative (i.e. waits a while for new words to prove their worth before including them)? If so, OED will fit the bill. Note that OED is not an encyclopaedic dictionary, so you won't find entries about people. Note too, that its diachronicity makes OED a dangerous tool in the hands of the unwary, who don't realise that the FIRST definition given is the earliest definition, not necessarily current today. This is why the first definition of "nice" is "foolish, stupid, senseless". You have to learn to use the OED: its "ME-M16" code immediately after that definition tells you that that's the meaning you can expect if you're reading a 15th century manuscript! If you prefer a dictionary that gives current meanings only, then go for one of the synchronic dictionaries. These (e.g. Collins) may also be encyclopaedic - i.e. include headwords that are geographical or biographical, such as "Philip", "Philip I", "Philip II", "Philip IV", Philip V", "Philip VI", Philippville", "Philippi", "Philippians", which I found listed consecutively on p. 1169 of my edition (and don't ask me what happened to Philip III!). Another tip is to read the bits at the front of the dictionary, to get an idea of the compiler's philosophy. As well as giving instructions on how to use the dictionary, these preliminary pages often contain fascinating essays on aspects of English. Collins, for example, has a long essay on "The development of English as a world language". I have dozens of dictionaries. Though most are specialist ones (science and technology), 7 are British English dictionaries (and I'm not including sources on aspects of the English language, such as Crystal's _Oxford Companion to the English Language_). I enjoy all of them. Each is useful (and annoying) in its own way. I'd hate to have to restrict myself to only one, and I think that if your business is words you should make it your business to be aware of the differences and strengths and weaknesses of the various dictionaries on offer. Buy as many dictionaries as you can, and keep updating them. --- Moderator's note: Andrew Wyllie also wrote: > (Incidentally, my machine having fallen over, thus > irretrievably losing the first draft of this enquiry, I > wouldn't mind seeing a new thread on the difficulties of > running Compuserve on a Mac, but sufficient unto the day.) For anyone who is interested in such a thread, one is developing on EDline's sister mailing list, Grapevine. --- IDB +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fd] Minding Ps and Qs Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Gillian Clarke, 101625.3601@compuserve.com Caroline Mackenzie wrote: > The original meaning of 'queue' is of course a tail and that > has been used to refer to all sorts of tails, including > Chinamen's pigtails (i.e. a Sino-hyphenated-American, I > believe!) Rosemary Lim then replied: > Er, that's as correct as wog, spick, wop, chick or any other > outdated and derogatory term. Not very nice, even in jest. I'm sorry to be so dense - and perhaps unwittingly insensitive - but what was derogatory about what Caroline Mackenzie wrote concerning the pigtails (common term for plaited hair) also being called queues? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fe] E-mail characters Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: Josephine Bacon, bacon@langservice.com Getting accents on the Mac is the easiest thing in the world, and I especially recommend the program called PopChar. PopChar Pro works with Word, Word tried to lock PopChar out of its latest versions. With PopChar, as soon as you open it up and highlight a character, the character appears on your screen. What is more, the keys you need to press to get that character in the normal way are shown. I could not work without it for certain languages, especially when using the CE fonts which contain all the characters for eastern European languages but not always in the same place in each font. There is nothing that comes anywhere near it on the PC. --------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: Astarte Woeckener. hills@hsent.demon.co.uk I had the same problems with German umlauts. By chance I got hold of a German keyboard which made it easy to write and send umlauts. But I guess it's not that easy to find a Finnish keyboard in England. --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Roger Jones, Roger.Jones@rjpc.demon.co.uk List subscribers sometimes ask how to key "special characters" in Windows. I have composed a single-page table listing most of the special ANSI characters -- accented, Greek, mathematical symbols, typographical symbols, non-English punctuation marks -- and saved it as an Acrobat PDF file. The listings are not exhaustive, but they are certainly 90-something-% complete; I have omitted quotation marks because "smart quotes" are now so common, and various little-used other characters are excluded. If you would like a copy, please contact me, as many people on several other discussion groups have done. Although many have access to ANSI character lists in numerical sequence in software manuals, the table's layout makes for much easier use. If you don't yet know about Acrobat PDF, download Acrobat Reader free of charge from www.adobe.com and get equipped for the next millennium. You need Acrobat Reader to open the PDF file, and you will have an increasing need for it as PDF becomes the standard format for distributing formatted files and for delivering to printers what used to be camera-ready copy (as I am now doing routinely). --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: John Davies, john@redwoods.demon.co.uk None of the responses to this query has mentioned the quick and simple solution I use myself, so it might be helpful if I pass it on. I often have to produce e-mails and other documents in German, which can be time-consuming when one's keyboard lacks the various German characters. I find it virtually impossible to carry the control character sequences in my head, and finding the characters in MSWord's "insert symbol" feature is very slow. I use a marvellous shareware utility called "Smartboard" for this purpose (among many other purposes, which I'll come to shortly). Normally, when you use the "copy" or "cut" command in any program running under Windows, the text selected is put on the clipboard, from which it can be pasted into any other application. But whilst the clipboard only ever carries the latest item that you have copied, Smartboard automatically keeps a copy of everything that has ever been put on the clipboard, until you decide to delete it. That in itself is a most useful feature when word-processing, because I often find I need to re-paste a bit of text that the clipboard has overwritten with another item. For special characters, I have made an individual clipboard copy of all the ones I ever use, and put them in a special folder in Smartboard from which they can be retrieved with just 3 clicks of the mouse when using any windows application. If I wanted to, I could assign a special "hot key" to each character, which would be even quicker. This is much easier than any other method I've tried, partly because Smartboard is always running in the background, and can be instantly invoked by a right-button mouse click on the application's control button, or by a configurable hot key if you prefer (I use Control-0). It disappears again as soon as you click the "paste" button. For an internet user, it's marvellous to be able to capture bits of text, graphics and so on, for examination or use later: just select and copy, and it's there. I use if for keeping copies of WWW URLs that I come across in reading newsgroups &c, until I next log onto the web and have time to look at them. I also use it to keep a note of books that are recommended by newsgroup correspondents: when I go to the library or a bookshop I simply print out the Smartboard folder in which I keep the details. Another folder contains my personal details, useful for pasting into electronic application forms. I do use a hot key for this last purpose: in *any* Windows application, pressing Control+Shift+W instantly enters "Welwyn Garden City" at the insertion point. That's where I live, and it's a name my brain knows how to spell but my fingers don't. You can download a trial copy from < http://www.smartcode.com > The full version (which I'd recommend, since it allows you to have separate folders and to keep an unlimited number of items) costs about GBP25 as far as I can remember. I have no relationship with the company that produces Smartboard other than being a satisfied customer. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fg] Adjectives in US English Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk Sylvia Eriksen wrote: > An example of a definite exception is epidemiological, which > only ever takes the -al form. One of my authors has "Numerous epidemiologic studies have explored etiologic factors ...". +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fh] Family matters Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: BJ Sutton, jastext@mnet.fr Neville Hankins wrote: > My nephew was recently casitgated by both his mother and girl- > friend for using the word 'incentivised' in a report (they > thought 'motivated' was better), and my brother was also > recently castigated by his PhD supervisor for using the word > 'transitioned' (condemned as manager-speak garbage). > I should advise them to think again and not follow the American > habit of creating verbs from nouns. As a recovering business academic, I have seen all of these terms and more in what is known as "the management literature". I couldn't resist adding the term "impacted" or "impacted on", which is far too ubiquitous in that genre, and never fails to provoke a shudder. While the Economist Style Guide cautions against using nouns as verbs, my own general rule of thumb is that, if it's ugly, don't use it. Pity there aren't more authors with the same basic standards. --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Anne Waddingham, Waddingham@compuserve.com Re the "incentivised"/"transitioned" strand in recent EDLines, it put me in mind of my favourite phrase when encountering these horrors - I think someone put it in an EDLine a while back: "There ain't no noun that can't be verbed". How true. How terribly true. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fi] Web addresses for dictionaries Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: Andrea Bernstein, AndreaJB@aol.com Liz Goodman wrote: > Does anyone know a Website address which takes you directly > into a dictionary? There has been some discussion lately about selecting a dictionary and about online access to a dictionary. I was delighted to find that I have access to the New Oxford Dictionary of English online through AOL (there had to be some advantage in using that service!). If anyone wants to reach it it's at Keyword: Oxford Dictionary. I think it may also be possible for non-AOL members to get into it too (apparently it requires some software, which is available free of charge) Have a look at their website at: < http://www.aol.co.uk/press/index.html > I looked up "incentivize" and found "incentivize (also -ise) verb [with OBJ.] provide (someone) with an incentive for doing something: this is likely to incentivize management to find savings". However, a search for "transitioned" elicited the comment that 15 entries had been found-- not one of which was actually for the word "transitioned". They included "transit", "transitional", and "transition". --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Joy Burrough, burrough@bos.nl There is an on-line version of the Merriam-Webster (for those needing to consult an American English dictionary). It's at: < http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm > ---------------------- Date: Tues, 6 Oct 1998 From: Ronne Randall, ronne@ronne.demon.co.uk Just yesterday I came upon what looks like an interesting Internet research site: < http://www.itools.com/research-it/ > It contains not only a dictionary, but also a thesaurus, conversion tables, numerous foreign dictionaries, and more. I haven't checked it out yet (I was directed to it by a friend in the States, and just "visited" to make sure it was there), so I don't know how good it is, but it's worth a try. I do, however, suspect that the dictionary is American, so if you're in the UK it may not be very useful. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fj] Punctuation and footnotes Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Gillian Clarke, 101625.3601@compuserve.com Gillian O'Loghlin wrote: > When a whole sentence is enclosed in brackets and is also > footnoted, where does the footnote reference mark go - inside > or outside the bracket? I believe the position of the footnote indicator (number or letter - usually superscript) follows the same rule about where to place the punctuation if a complete sentence is in brackets. It goes before the closing bracket. --------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Geoff Barnett, geoff@healthcare-edit.demon.co.uk 'Hart's Rules' states that footnote references should be placed outside punctuation but inside the closing parenthesis when referring to matter within the parentheses. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fk] Nautical terms Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Joy Burrough, burrough@bos.nl Wendy Lawson wrote: > I have a quick query concerning a nautical term: I can't find > it on the Web glossaries, but thought perhaps another editor > had seen it. "Knop" apparently a unit of speed (smaller than a > knot, approx. 2 m/s). Can anyone confirm it's existence or is > it just a typo? A quick reaction - though I am NOT a specialist in nautical terms. I do speak Dutch, however, and the Dutch for "knot" is "knop", so maybe this is a Dutch equivalent. There are similarities between Holland and Britain in other units of measurement. When I did my fieldwork in West Bank Demerara (Guyana) in a farming area on what had been plantations established by Dutch, British or French colonists in the 18th century, I found that the early documents referred to "roods". I seem to remember that there were differences between English and Rhineland (i.e. Dutch) roods. Hope this helps you untangle your knots! [See also Section 5, Bookmarks, for some URLs suggested by Joy.] ---------------------- Date: Tues, 6 Oct 1998 From: Anne Waddingham, Waddingham@compuserve.com I consulted my husband who has travelled a few nautical miles in his time, and he reckons there is no such thing as a 'knop'. He says 2 m/s is about 7.2 km/h or just under 4 knots. In fact, 1.85318 km/h (rounded up = 2 km/h) is 1 knot, so perhaps that's where the confusion arose. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fl] Monkeys and onions Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: Hilary Powers, HPowers1@compuserve.com Douglas Meekison wrote: > Has anyone ever come across the metaphor of a monkey opening > an onion? The sentence (by a Japanese author) which prompts me > to ask this question is 'Fundamental interests to seek for the > final element of materials are still important, but it is now > a dream of a monkey opening skin of onion to the end without > success'. It sounds remarkably like a conflation of two metaphors -- the onion, whose layers get peeled away one by one as someone searches vainly for the "real onion" inside it, and the monkey with a typewriter, who (with five companions similarly equipped) will eventually reproduce the whole of English literature as a random accretion of letters.... They're both widely used without quite achieving cliche status. I never heard the species of the onion-peeler mentioned before. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fm] Kilowatt hours Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 From: Sharon Boddy, sboddy@ftn.net Canadian spelling question: Does anyone know if "kilowatt hour" is hyphenated (i.e., "kilowatt-hour")? Thanks! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2fn] Technical terms in the forestry industry Date: Tues, 6 Oct 1998 From: Helen Ough Dealy, words_that_work@xtra.co.nz I am trying to find a dictionary of technical terms used in the forestry industry. Can anyone help? ---[3] FYI ----------------------------------------------------- ** [3dh] Editing and the Frankfurt Book Fair Date: Thurs, 8 Oct 1998 From: Eddie Kent, eddie.kent@mcr1.poptel.org.uk You must have noticed the Frankfurt Book Fair has exploded once again. On the eve of its opening Lord Weidenfield, the publisher, gave a speech in which he complained that standards in book publishing are declining. He said that 'books are being rushed out before they are fit for publication ...and ...howlers are appearing in print largely because publishers under financial pressure are bringing out books quickly and cheaply at the expense of editorial ...quality.' Good stuff. This was picked up by radio 4 on Wednesday who ran a discussion among some well-known women, including a publisher. This latter at some point said things are not so bad now with the advent of word processors. An author can submit a complete work in electronic form which the publisher can issue with confidence, since there is no intermediary typesetter to introduce errors. What a pity, though, that The Times, also on Wednesday, printed a little list of some howlers perpetrated by authors. Such as the heroine of Elaine Feinstein's Mother's Girl who, although aged 4 in 1938 is nevertheless still a schoolgirl at the time of the Hungarian uprising of 1956. But the best must be Chris Smith's Creative Britain which had to pulped when it was discovered that he had got the name of his own Department wrong throughout the book. Other incidents include a book with its pages mixed up. I remember well the time I have to ring a printer early on a fine Saturday morning to give him similar news. But at least ours hadn't hit the pubic domain. (I still have my copy!) And dear old OUP who in the latest edition thought the 1926 version of Modern English Usage was 'edited' by Fowler. And I am certain Rose Tremain would have been pleased if before publication someone had pointed out to her that Little Dorrit does not die in the novel. Ah well. Let Lord W. have the last word. 'Advances in technology might help publishers to cut costs and spend more on editing.' What a very good idea. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [3di] SFEP members Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 From: Ian Kingston, ian@ikingston.demon.co.uk This message is for SFEP members only - the rest of you can skip to more interesting contributions. The latest issue of CopyRight (October) contains a somewhat lengthy article written by me. Please take the time to read it, as I think it raises some very important matters. CopyRight's editor asks for comments to be sent to him, but I should also point out that I am also very eager to receive any comments that members might have (favourable or otherwise). ---[4] Business matters ---------------------------------------- ** [4bl] Accountancy fees for self-assessment Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Anne Waddingham, Waddingham@compuserve.com Silvia Berlincioni wrote: > how much do your accountants charge for your Self Assessment > tax returns? ... > My accountant has just quoted me 275 GBpounds plus VAT, which > sounds a bit crazy. That does sound a bit steep. I've just paid mine GBP212 for similar services. I find it's better to go to a one-person band, rather than an accountancy firm, so you don't get lumbered with the overheads of a large office. In addition, I think a self- employed accountant understands the situation of the sole trader situation better. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4bn] ECU and inter-EU business Date: Mon, 28 Sept 1998 From: Sylvia Eriksen, sylviae@post8.tele.dk Does anyone have any thoughts on how the advent of the ECU next year might affect inter-EU business, given the fact that countries such as England and Denmark have chosen to remain outside this monetary system? ---[5] Bookmarks ----------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 From: Joy Burrough, burrough@bos.nl The other week _New Scientist_ mentioned several web sites that give equivalents in all manner of units of measurement. You could try them (I haven't checked them out): < http://www.speckdesign.com/Tools2a.html > (for coverting units from one system to another, e.g. carats to scruples) and < http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/index.html > (which is a dictionary of units of measurement) ---[6] Just for fun ------------------------------------------- "Beguiling ideas about science", no. 26 Water vapor gets together in a cloud. When it is big enough to be called a drop, it does. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "It CAN be done", no. 10 I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year. --- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957 ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Iain Brown, at: i_brown@compuserve.com Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1998, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, Iain Brown Compilation (c) 1998, The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 3.41 Next issue: 18 October 1998 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=