=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 3, no. 9 (1 March 1998) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A---Previous queries [2cu] On-screen proofreading? [2cw] Alphabetical order [Incorporating [2cv] Hi, Saint!] [2cy] Apostrophes Q & A---New queries [2cz] Troublesome hyphenation FYI [3bt] Career flyers [5] Bookmarks [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------------- ** [2cu] On-screen proofreading? Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 From: Naomi Laredo, naomi@smallprt.demon.co.uk In response to my complaint about being asked to proofread on screen, Corinne Orde wondered: > But in any case, I'm intrigued to know what sort of 'proofs' these > might be. Wordprocessor files? So is this really proofreading, or is > it copy-editing and an excuse to pay a lower fee? In the most recent case, they were Quark XPress files, and it was genuinely proofreading, but of course I was expected to have Quark XPress and was not offered a premium rate for this investment. And I agree with Katie Lewis's comment: > Besides that, having been cleaned up (one hopes) and formatted by the > typesetter in their own templates and formats, the document should > stay with them, not go outside for intervention. ------------------------ Date: Thurs, 26 Feb 1998 From: Merle Read, ReadMA@aol.com I had a similar over-a-barrel experience to Corinne Orde's (last week's EDline), where an arranged fee turned out to be not quite what it meant, but by the time this became apparent I was half through the work and hadn't much option but to continue. I had agreed to do a copy- editing job for a one-off fee of £200. When I received the MS I realised that the author had sent only the first half of the book: I duly informed the publisher and worked through the pages I had. A couple of weeks later I was sent part 2: this precisely doubled the extent of the manuscript, but the total payment I was offered was only 1.5 times my original fee. When I demurred and suggested that double the fee would have been reasonable I was told that the fee for the job wouldn't have been worked out on a per-page basis. Was I being naive in expecting twice the number of pages to mean twice my time to mean twice my money?? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cw] Alphabetical order [Incorporating [2cv] Hi Saint!] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com Please think of the poor user of the index and, whatever order you decide on, insert cross-references liberally. ---------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 From: Miles Markus, miles@gecko.biol.wits.ac.za Further to recent discussion on this subject - in South Africa, Afrikaans names such as van der Merwe or van Wyk would never, ever be indexed under "M" or "W". If an initial or first name appears, then the "v" and "d" are always in lower case, i.e. Joseph van der Merwe or Joseph van Wyk (never, ever Joseph Van Der Merwe or Joseph Van Wyk). On the other hand, a capital letter is often used in text, as follows: "...., where the bats occur frequently (Van der Merwe & Bloggs, 1988)". I automatically use an upper case "V" in that situation. I am not saying that a lower case "v" isn't used in print - someone with some time to spare would have to conduct an investigation to see how many, if any, South African journals/books use "v". It would depend on editorial policy. In a reference list, it is very common to have "Van der Merwe, J. & Bloggs, J. 1988. ...." Again, I cannot recall how frequently a lower case "v" is used. But a South African reference list would never, ever give "J. Van der Merwe & J. Bloggs. 1988 ..." The thought that one might accidentally include van der Merwe that way (with a capital "V", following the person's initial/s or first name/s), is too ghastly to contemplate. ----------------------- Date: Tues, 24 Feb 1998 From: Andrea Cordani, ships@dircon.co.uk Merle Read wrote: > surnames are indexed under the first element (von, de, etc) of a > surname of non-English origin if the person is from an English- > speaking country, but under the last element of the surname in > other cases. I can see the logic in this, but my problem is that I edit a directory of living individuals who work in the health service across the UK. I have no idea what the person's country of origin is: they may be from an English-speaking country, or they may not be. Now that anyone in the European Union can work anywhere within it, the "country of origin" criterion is not at all helpful. Maybe one should modify this and use the rule according to where the book is likely to be published. Even this is problematical with cross-boundary publishing these days - would one have one index for one country and one for another (perhaps like those leaflets for gadgets which have the instructions in six languages, flagged up by the car plate code e.g. GB, DE etc.?). What fun this thread is... ---------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 From: Mary Warren, mwarren@astra.global.net.uk > Re Mark's query on the rules for the correct order (e.g. in > bibliographies) of author names with prepositions and articles: The CBE Manual (6th edn), pp. 136-7, Table 7.1 Guidelines for determining formal names for author indexing -- provides comprehensive rules for most countries, inc. the various European languages, Asian/Indian, Arabian, Egyptian, etc. Similarly Hans Wellisch in Indexing from A to Z, pp. 287-99 (Section: Personal Names/Prefixes) covers European names and non-Western names. Briefly, both agree that the order for Vincent van Gogh shld be Gogh, Vincent van and Beethoven, Ludwig van but Wellisch also says: 'prefixed names of people who are or were citizens of, or lived and worked mainly in, an English-speaking country are invariably entered under the prefix', e.g. Du Maurier, Daphne Van Loon, Hendrik Also, with regard to saints' names, Wellisch p.296: 'Saints are traditionally entered under their forenames (in English form if there is one), followed by a comma, the ''Saint'' (which is not abbreviated to St.), and any additional epithets', e.g., Stephen, Saint Stephen, Saint, King of Hungary +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cy] Apostrophes Date: Tues, 24 Feb 1998 From: Jenny Roberts, jennyroberts@compuserve.com Eddie Kent may be interested to know that in my 1968 Penguin edition of Angus Wilson's Such Darling Dodos, there is not a single greengrocer's apostrophe to be seen for 'What do hippos eat?', either in the title, running heads, contents list, 'first published in Listener' reference, or in the last sentence of the story, where the question is asked. This suggests that Penguin were more thorough about copy-editing/proof-reading in the 1960s than they seem to be now, but leaves open the question of how the mistake in the Secker & Warburg edition arose. And given that they were happy with 'hippo's' why didn't the title story appear as 'Such darling dodo's'? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2cz] Troublesome hyphenation Date: Tues, 17 Feb 1998 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk Here is a particularly inelegant example of hyphenation: 1979-97 was a period in which government adopted an anti-trade union stance I reworded ("anti-trade-union" is just too much). What would other readers have done? ---[3] FYI ----------------------------------------------------------- ** [3bt] Career flyers Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 From: Judyth Mermelstein, Judyth_Mermelstein@babylon.montreal.qc.ca The Quebec/Atlantic Canada branch of the Editors' Association will be participating in a "Career Day" at McGill University on March 10th and we would like to hand out a one-page flier to students interested in the profession--something a bit easier to deal with than the dry descriptions of various types of editorial tasks which form part of EAC's national directory and sample contract. I am supposed to produce this gem with sufficient time to spare for others to revise, desktop and proofread it--which means a rush job. I have a number of sources at my disposal but not a lot of free time in which to review them and write the flier. My questions are: 1. Would anyone who has contributed to EDline over the past three months object to having a line or three of their postings reproduced in the context of a flier like this, where the idea is to show the range of work editors do and the types of problems they must solve? 2. Would anyone object on general principles to somebody using short quotations without prior written consent in a context like this? (The flier is a volunteer effort, to be distributed free, for a non-profit organization.) Given the deadline problem, I would appreciate it very much if any comments or objections were e-mailed to me off-list as soon as possible, as well as sent to EDline. Thank you for your help! --- [Moderator's note: Jane and I have indicated to Judyth that she has our permission to reproduce items from EDline. All material will be fully sourced.---IDB] ---[5] Bookmarks ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 From: Richard Harris, 100131.3564@compuserve.com Searching for an out-of-print book? Try: < http://www.bibliofind.com > ---[6] Just for fun -------------------------------------------------- "Lines from the slushpile", no. 23 The four-story ranch house, flanked by cypress columns, looked majestically down on Route 66. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "Everyone needs an editor". no. 15 The successful editor is one who is constantly finding new writers, nurturing their talents, and publishing them with critical and financial success. The thrill of developing fresh writing makes the search worthwhile, even when the waiting and working becomes months, sometimes years, of drudgery and frequent disappointment. -- A. Scott Berg on Maxwell Perkins (in: Max Perkins, Editor of Genius, 1997, p. 50) ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Iain Brown, at: i_brown@compuserve.com Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The sections of EDline are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! [7] Miscellaneous -- odds and sods The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. *Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/home.htm > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1998, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997 Iain Brown =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 3.9 Next issue: 8 March 1998 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=