=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 4, no. 18 (9 May 1999) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: [1] Editorial Q & A---previous queries [2he] Preferred usage [2hj] Ethnic groups Q & A---new queries [2hm] Pet hates [2hn] Semicolons and parentheses FYI [3ei] NUJ Book Branch: Equality in Publishing evening [3ej] Prize for paper on editing Business matters---new posting [4cm] Editor/Rewriter wanted for marketing book [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[1] Editorial ----------------------------------------------- Please continue to send all contributions for next week's EDline to me at < iain.brown@ucl.ac.uk > If you can, pleas avoid sending mail to my Compuserve address: my laptop which has the CIS connection "died" yesterday (hence the delay in this issue). Thanks. Iain Brown Moderator ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------- ** [2he] Preferred usage Date: Tues, 4 May 1999 From: Robert Webb, pluto@plutobks.demon.co.uk Anne Waddingham wrote: > Last Sunday I built a wigwam from 3 beanpoles and a couple of > sheets for my 3-year-old. After reading Edline's strand on the > terminology, the most difficult part of the operation was > explaining who used to live in them - aboriginals? native > Americans? First nation people? I know he didn't care a fig but > life for Mummy has certainly got more complicated. What games do > kids play these days now 'cowboys and indians' is no longer PC? > (I ask this in light-hearted vein!) The Economist Style Guide (Profile Books, 1996) says "it is totally unacceptable to refer to American Indians as 'red'" so, presumably The Economist uses "American Indians". In a recent Pluto Press book on North American literature, our author insisted they should be referred to as Native Americans (with title caps) on the argument that this is what the peoples themselves wish to be called, and my American colleague confirms this. By the way, I'm sure the original wigwams were not built out of beanpoles. Native Americans almost certainly used these to prop up their beans and sweetpeas. And of course you're right, "Cowboys and indians" is non PC. These days kids play similar games _on_ PCs. ---------------------- Date: Tues, 4 May 1999 From: John Woodruff, jwoodruf@globalnet.co.uk Anne Waddingham enquired (tongue in cheek): > What games do kids play these days now 'cowboys and indians' > is no longer PC? Since the first noun in the name of the game is clearly doubly sexist, it should be renamed 'cattlepersons and first nation people'. I'm sure John Wayne would have approved. In a slightly more serious vein, I would like to ask editors on both sides of the Atlantic who routinely edit texts that are to be published in the same form in both the UK and the US, or Americanise UK texts, to what degree political correctness should play a part. There seems to be a dividing line in the UK between things which are eminently sensible (like police officer instead of policeman) and things which are contrived to the point of risibility. For example, I'm just starting a job for a US publisher, and find that 'Christmas present' - innocuous enough to my eye - is taboo: I should use 'holiday present' instead. This example aside, to what kind of things should would-be Americanizers be tuning their antennas (antennae?)? ----------------------- Date: Thurs, 6 May 1999 From: Deborah Shaw, shawd@mindspring.com First, for John Woodruff: I am a southern American and I pronounce ASCII ask-ey. I vote for that spelling. It's neutral and accurate. > ... I built a wigwam from 3 beanpoles and a couple of sheets ... The dwelling is properly called a tipi. Wigwam is the English term, although it's not an offensive one, like squaw is for woman. The parallel term to 'wigwam' for the people is 'Injuns.' > the most difficult part of the operation was explaining who > used to live in them - aboriginals? native Americans? ... Seriously? Mostly nomadic (Great) Plains tribes -- the hunter- gatherer-warriors who depended on the buffalo for sustenance -- and some semi-nomadic Desert Culture tribes in what is now New Mexico and Arizona. But you can tell your son about the Lakota's tipis. About 200 unintelligible languages were spoken in North America at the time of pre-European contact. By 1750, with the introduction of horses, about 50 tribes had migrated to the Great Plains, farther from the European colonists. Some agrarian peoples already lived there and remained in their earth lodges. The nomadic Plains tribes, who needed to travel light and move fast, all lived in tipis. One especially, the Teton Dakota, who call themselves Lakota, are the stereotypical Indians featured in popular fiction of the rowdy American West. The Lakota crossed the Missouri in central Minnesota just prior to French contact, in the late 17th or early 18th centuries and proceeded to raise hell. They were notorious as the "scourge of the northern Plains, a people with a reputation for irascibility, impetuosity, and, in some cases, sheer delight in causing trouble."* The Lakota intimidated the agrarian Arikara; regularly raided other tribes, making enemies of all their neighbors; harassed keelboats on the Missouri; and threatened wagon trains. They were warriors, as were almost all North American tribes. As a Dakota tribe, they were closely related to three tribes of Nakota and to four tribes of eastern Dakota. Seven of these related tribes did not make war on each other -- not by agreement, but as an informal pact, almost an accident. The eighth, the Assiniboin, were allied with the Cree against the Yanktonai, and they made war against all seven. The Lakota only attempted to ally with surrounding tribes in the late 19th century, when gold was discovered in the Black Hills and white settlers started moving in. In 1876, they joined the Cheyenne as allies against the Americans in the Battle of the Little Big Horn. Their last military action was the "battle" of Wounded Knee in 1891 [sic].** The war leaders Crazy Horse and Red Cloud, and the Hunkpapa shaman Sitting Bull, are Lakota names you may recognize. The nomadic Plains culture developed, flourished, and was destroyed in fewer than 150 years. The Lakota tipi is light, durable, and easily transported. Timber is rare on the prairie and the lodge poles would be difficult to replace. On the move, they function as the frame for a travois, which transports the tipi cover and other camping gear. When set up, the tipi is about 25 feet wide, with the poles loosely gathered and crossed in the center, near the open smokehole above the fireplace. It's used by a single nuclear family throughout the year. * Spencer, R.F., and Jennings, J.D. _The Native Americans_, 1965, Harper & Row, page 351. ** Wounded Knee, in the early hours of 29 December 1890 near Pine Ridge, South Dakota, was genocide. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2hj] Ethnic groups Date: Tues, 4 May 1999 From: Stephen Wellings, stephenwellings@msn.com B. J. Sutton wrote: > The three racial classifications for the human species (based > on physical characteristics such as skull shape) were taught > to me as Negroid, Caucasian or Caucasoid, and Mongoloid. I > don't know if this has been refined or altered more recently, > but these terms still exist in most of my texts. I should add > that while the term "mongoloid" is often used to designate > people born with Down's Syndrome, the proper term for this is > "mongolism". Has anyone else heard these classifications, and > are they still in use in anthropology and related sciences? I'm afraid one of your recent correspondents on this topic is disastrously wrong about the 'proper' term for people with Down's syndrome. The medical community now eschews the term 'mongolism' (as even my 1990 edition of the OED confirms), and those people with the condition, their parents, carers, lobbyists and all others involved have done so for a very long time. The 'm' word is as offensive to these people - me included - as the term 'Negro' is to black people. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2hm] Pet hates Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 From: Eldo Barkhuizen, aared@clara.net Has anyone noticed the increasing use by television presenters of 'also' and 'as well' in the same sentence? For example, 'There were also five casualties in the bombing as well.' And what about, 'There's five of them in the street,' or 'There's four holidays to be won'? As a former South African English teacher now working as an editor in the UK, I'm appalled at the shoddy use of English that pervades the media over here. It would be interesting to hear of other editors' pet hates. ---------------------- Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 From: Iain Brown, iain.brown@ucl.ac.uk Eldo Barkhuizen wrote: > It would be interesting to hear of other editors' pet hates. And indeed you can! Roger Jones asked for similar peeves last October, and collected the responses. The full list is up on the EE Web site: < http://zeus.slais.ucl.ac.uk/idb/ee/peeves.htm > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2hn] Semicolons and parentheses Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 From: David Price, dprice@nccnet.co.uk Can semicolons be used as parentheses, like dashes, commas, brackets etc.? I do proofreading for a firm whose managing editor often uses them in sentences like: "Several nineteenth century authors; among them Dickens, Trollope and Hardy; kept pet rabbits and enjoyed teaching them tricks." Is this right (and I don't mean historically accurate)? It seems to break the sentence up too much to me, and it's a practice that I've not come across anywhere else. I have "corrected" it in the past, but sometimes I've just shrugged my shoulders and let it pass because it is clearly done very deliberately by this editor. If it is wrong; which I think it is; Sorry! (which I think it is) does anyone have any advice on how to break this to her diplomatically, or do I just correct it without saying anything? ---[3] FYI ----------------------------------------------------- ** [3ei] NUJ Book Branch: Equality in Publishing evening Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 From: Paul Hardy, paul_hardy@tolley.co.uk All EDline subscribers in the London area are invited to a speaker meeting on the general topic of achieving equality for all workers in the book publishing industry, regardless of sex, race, orientation or disability. Speakers include Qudsia Mirza, author of 'Race Relations in the Workplace', Women in Publishing, and Beulah Ainley, author of 'Black Journalists, White Media' and member of the NUJ Equality Council. Food and drink will be provided. All welcome, especially workers in publishing. 7 pm, Wednesday 2 June, TUC Congress House, Great Russell St, London WC1. Contact NUJ Book Branch for more details: < Book_Branch@hotmail.com > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [3ej] Prize for paper on editing Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk Cross-posted from SFEPLine, from the EASE mailing list > Nominations Solicited for Boydston Prize > > The Association for Documentary Editing seeks nominations for > its biennial Jo Ann Boydston Prize, which is awarded to the > author of a review or review essay dealing with scholarly > editing of works or documents. Reviews and review essays > published between June 1, 1997, and May 30, 1999, are eligible > for the 1999 prize, which will be awarded at the annual > meeting of the ADE in Charlottesville, Va., October 7-9, 1999. > The winner receives a plaque and a monetary award. > > Deadline for nominations is 1 August 1999. Submissions should > include three copies of the published review or review essay > (with the journal, volume, or other source clearly identified), > together with the author's name, address, and telephone number. > Send submissions to Professor George L. Geckle, Department of > English, Welsh Humanities Building, University of South > Carolina, Columbia, SC 29208. ---[4] Business matters --------------------------------------- ** [4cm] Editor/Rewriter wanted for marketing book Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 From: Ian Kingston, ian@ikingston.demon.co.uk I have recently had to turn down a job from a prospective new client, but I think it might be suitable for a UK-based EDliner. The book is about selling software in the UK and European markets, and is aimed at the senior management of small to medium-sized American software companies. The text is around 100,000 words long and requires copy-editing on-screen (Word 6.0 or above). Some chapters need substantial rewriting, so a good knowledge of marketing is required. The level of writing is generally informal. It is not a technical book, so knowledge of software is not important. Instead, it compares marketing here and in America. The client is the author of the book, and she is seeking a US publisher. If you are interested in editing this, please contact Sally Goodsell < sg@international-marketing.co.uk > with details of availability and charges and information about any marketing books you have previously edited/rewritten. You can also check out Sally Goodsell's background at < http://www.international-marketing.co.uk > Please don't reply to EDline - the client won't see your message! ---[6] Just for fun ------------------------------------------- "Education, education and education", no. 13 The greatest writer was William Shakespeare. He was born in the year 1564, supposedly on his birthday. He wrote tragedies, comedies and hysterectomies, all in Islamic pentameter. Romeo and Juliet are an example of a heroic couplet. Romeo's last wish was to be laid by Juliet. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "How to write good", no. 12 Comparisons are as bad as cliches. ---------------------- Date: Tues, 4 May 1999 From: John Woodruff, jwoodruf@globalnet.co.uk Without wishing to steal future thunder, I would like to mention a similar set of 'un-rules' (someone I'm sure will know the pukka name for the figure of speech) for editing included in a rather old (1972) but still useful book, *Newsman's English* (not very PC, I know) by the late Harold Evans, one-time editor of *The Times*. These he attributes to Helen Ferril of the *Rocky Mountain News*: 1. Don't use no double negative. 2. Make each pronoun agree with their antecedent. 3. Join clauses good, like a conjunction should. 4. About them sentence fragments. 5. When dangling, watch your participles. 6. Verbs has to agree with their subjects. 7. Just between you and I, case is important too. 8. Don't write run-on sentences they are hard to read. 9. Don't use commas, which aren't necessary. 10. Try to not ever split infinitives. 11. Its important to use your apostrophe's correctly. 12. Proofread your writing to see if you any words out. 13. Correct spelling is esential. ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Iain Brown, at: iain.brown@ucl.ac.uk or i_brown@compuserve.com Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. The sections of EDline are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! [7] Miscellaneous -- odds and sods * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Iain Brown, at: iain.brown@ucl.ac.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. * Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/ > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1999, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, Iain Brown Compilation (c) 1999, The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 4.18 Next issue: 16 May 1999 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=