=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 5, no. 1 (10 January 2000) Editorial mailing list Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A---previous query [2iz] Proper names Q & A---new queries [2jc] Printer's imprint [2jd] BC and AD [2je] Editorial titles [2jf] Surtees [2jg] Usage of 'who' Business matters---new posting [4ct] Japanese translator wanted [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q & A --------------------------------------------------- ** [2iz] Proper names Date: Thur, 9 December 1999 From: Judyth Mermelstein, espresso@e-scape.net Robert Webb wrote: > Conversely, in the US editors and writers change everything to > American English regardless, and don't see this as wrong. (Not > sure about Canadian or South African editors!) Well, this Canadian is appalled at the very idea and suspects that not only fellow-Canadians but also most reputable U.S. editors would *definitely* see something wrong in altering proper names for whatever reason. Providing an unofficial translation in the "house style" for a name in a foreign language which has no official English translation is a different matter, but under NO circumstances is it justified to monkey with an official English name. As for the Web, although it is not the primary reason for my reaction, it does add a reason for sticking to the spelling which the organization/organisation uses for itself. Still, given the known inadequacies of search engines and of spelling on the Web, I'd always recommend a Booleian "OR" in research. Spelling can make a BIG difference to what your search will locate. For example, at the beginning of the conflict, a search for "Kosovo" led almost exclusively to Serbian sites; to hear the Albanian side of the story, you had to seach for "Kosova" ... ---------------------- Date: Thur, 9 Dec 1999 From: Jane Lyle, jlyle@indiana.edu Robert Webb wrote: > Conversely, in the US editors and writers change everything to > American English regardless, and don't see this as wrong. (Not > sure about Canadian or South African editors!) Please don't generalize about "US editors and writers." Here at Indiana University Press, we do not change the original spelling of a party or organization; I would be jarred to see "Labor Party" in reference to the UK. If an author has made the choice to "Americanize" such spellings, he or she has the right to do that, even though I wouldn't agree with the decision. But a copy editor who made that choice would be making the wrong one. ---------------------- Date: Thur, 9 Dec 1999 From: Norman Grossblatt, NGrossbl@nas.edu According to Robert Webb, "in the US editors and writers change everything to American English regardless, and don't see this as wrong." An astonishing generalization and obviously not true. Good editors pay attention to and use organizations' chosen names. ---------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 From: Di Waite, diwaite@netspace.net.au I don't think Butcher is THAT vague about keeping faithfully to the national spelling style of specific institutions. On page 129 under Parochialisms she says, "Spell proper names correctly, e.g. Pearl Harbor, Lincoln Center, Australian Labor Party". Presumably this covers the ise/ize question as well. Paul Watt asks "What would happen if your book was -ize, but you discussed a trademark that used -ise. You would be legally bound to use the -ize form of the word..." To comply with legal trademark requirements shouldn't it be: "You would be legally bound to use the *-ise* form of the word."? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2jc] Printer's imprint Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 From: Julie Leppard, julie.leppard@ald.e-elgar.co.uk Can anyone advise me whether it is obligatory to have the printer's name and address printed in all books? The 1956 edition of Collins, Authors' and Printers' Dictionary tells me it is necessary by Act of Parliament but its replacement, The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors (1981) says, less emphatically, 'any paper printed for circulation in the United Kingdom must show the name and address of the printer'. I haven't been able to get hold of a more recent edition of this publication; I believe a revised edition is due in March. The most recent information I can find is Judith Butcher (3rd edition, 1992), who says only 'Books printed in the United Kingdom must also include the printer's name and address'. Can anyone point me in the right direction for an up to date ruling? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2jd] BC and AD Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 From: Katie Purvis, Katie.Purvis@penguin.com.au I am editing a general history in which the author uses BC and AD with dates. This rouses me to ask where everybody is at with BC and AD. Is it becoming more usual and/or acceptable to use the culturally neutral BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) instead? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2je] Editorial titles Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 From: Jennifer Margiotta, jmargiotta@cq.com What are the general rules when assigning different editorial titles for a publication? For instance, what is the difference between an associate editor and an assistant editor? What are the traditional duties associate or assistant editors perform? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2jf] Surtees Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 From: Christine Headley, chps@globalnet.co.uk R S Surtees (1805-64) is well known in England for any number of books regarding one Jorrocks, a keen fox-hunter, to put it mildly. In a book I am proofreading on C18 garden design, and Vanbrugh in particular, there are several references to books published by The Surtees Society. Can anyone suggest a connection? A websearch with Metacrawler reveals that all Surtees Society publications have a connection with Yorkshire and points north (south of the Scottish border), but - why him? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2jg] Usage of 'who' Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 From: Chad Driscoll, cdriscoll@listen.com I know "who" is a pronoun for people, but what if the antecedent is a collective entity? I'm a music reviewer; I think expressions like "the group who..." and the "award-winning duo who" sound O.K. Am I wrong? To me, a duo isn't a ~thing~. I will defer to your better judgement if someone there will take the time to respond. [Please send any replies directly to Chad as well as to EDline. Thanks. --JK ] ---[4] Business matters --------------------------------------- ** [4ct] Japanese translator wanted Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 From: Roelien Theron, roelien@pagearts.co.za [Cross-posted from LANGline] I work for a small design and editing agency in Cape Town. One of our clients publishes a series of coffee-table books and condensed booklet versions aimed at the upper end of the tourism/travel market. The books and booklets typically consist of photographs and captions - one full-colour, spot-varnished photograph per page (landscape orientation), accompanied by long captions describing or dealing with an aspect or subject of the photograph. One of the booklets (36 pp.) is on London, and we have been asked to project manage its translation from English into Japanese. I have managed to locate three Japanese-speaking translators in South Africa and have asked them to supply sample translations. However, I would like to find an experienced Japanese-speaking translator to evaluate their work. If the translations are not up to scratch, I'd be interested in finding a good translator, preferably in London, as the client has a distribution and sales team operating in the city. Are there any Langliners out there who can recommend one or two excellent Japanese translators, or who can suggest ways of finding someone? A related question concerns the technical aspects, i.e. dtp and imaging of Japanese script. One of the translators I spoke to said that he routinely supplies printouts at 200 percent. This is then scanned and reduced by 50 percent, to the actual size - in other words each page of text is treated as an image. In the absence of Japanese Windows and all sorts of other extensions, this sounds like a practical solution. Are there any other options though? ---[6] Just for fun ------------------------------------------- eCatch offline browser From: Hilary Powers, HPowers1@compuserve.com Shena Deuchars wrote: > I am using the eCatch offline browser to look at web sites > captured onto my PC. I could not but share this wonderful > message with you: > Server momentaneously not responding > It seems to mean that I am not connected (which I knew!) but I am > interested in the etymology of the adverb. I posed Shena Deuchars' query to Copyediting-L, and the indefatigable Jane Lyle replied: > It's not a new word but a revival--albeit in a new sense. From > the OED: > > [obsolete headword] > > momentaneous > > momen'taneous, a. [f. L. momentane-us (see momentane) + -ous. ] > Very common in the 17th c. > > 1. Lasting but a moment; momentary. > > C. 1610 Women Saints 78 Contemning vile pleasure and > momentaneous delighte. > > A. 1711 Ken Preparatives Poet. Wks. 1721 IV. 41 Or on this > Momentaneous Stage, In a short Time to live an Age? > > 1801 Fuseli Lect. Paint. iii. (1848) 407 Form displayed in > space, and momentaneous energy, are the element of painting. > > 1921 H. Poutsma Characters of Eng. Vb. & Expanded Form i. > 2 The actions expressed by verbs..may be..momentaneous, i.e. > covering only one moment, or comprised between two closely > contiguous moments, so that the beginning and the end > practically synchronize. > > 1921 E. Sapir Language v. 108 `Cry out every now and then' > or `cry in fits and starts' is momentaneous-iterative. > > 1923 D. H. Lawrence Kangaroo vii. 163 Do I want this curious > transparent blood of the antipodes, with its momentaneous > feelings? > > 1926 H. Poutsma Gram. Late Mod. Eng. ii. Sect.2. 545 When > distinctly verbal in nature, the attributive past participle > mostly has a momentaneous or resultative aspect. > > 2. Occurring in a moment, instantaneous. > > 1657 W. Morice Coena quasi Koinh xv. 231 Though the previous > dispositions were precedent, yet the introduction of the > form is momentaneous. > > 1670 W. Clarke Nat. Hist. Nitre 88 In which momentaneous > explosion of the whole quantity all the force consists. > > 1692 Ray Disc. iii. vi. (1732) 391 Shall this Dissolution > be gradual and successive or momentaneous and sudden? > > 1793 Holcroft tr. Lavater's Physiog. xxvii. 130 Creation of > every kind is momentaneous. > > [obsolete sense] > > 3. Pertaining to an infinitesimal division of time. Cf. moment > 3 b. Obs. > > 1708 Misc. Curiosa II. 128, I make use here, of what the > celebrated Mr. Newton has demonstrated..concerning the > Momentaneous Increments or Decrements of Quantities that > Increase or Decrease by a continual Flux. > > Hence > > [obsolete sense] > > momen'taneously adv., in a moment, also, every moment; > momen'taneousness. > > 1727 Bailey vol. II, Instantaneousness, Momentaneousness, or > happening in the Nick of Time. > > 1753 N. Torriano Gangr. Sore Throat 8 Bad Humours, which > when once formed, increase momentaneously, and that too > with great Velocity. > > 1782 Eliz. Blower George Bateman I. 225 Hassell, staggered > by this application to his hinder part,..turned momentaneously > round. > > 1921 H. Poutsma Characters of Eng. Vb. & Expanded Form i. > 5 [Actions expressed by verbs may be] momentaneously iterative, > which may be graphically represented by a succession of dots. Amazin' -- it didn't even occur to me to look it up, as I was sure it was a new coinage conflating "momentarily" and "simultaneously".... ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for a weekly online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. * POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST All messages to be posted to the list should be sent to Jane Kerr, at: bywater@zetnet.co.uk Include as the subject line, "EDline [topic]", where [topic] is the subject under discussion. Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. Quoting from previous messages: quote as much as you need to make the context of your reply clear, but no more. The sections of EDline are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! [7] Miscellaneous -- odds and sods * Administration All messages of a subscription or administrative nature should be directed to Iain Brown, at: iain.brown@ucl.ac.uk with "EDline ADMIN" in the subject line. * To subscribe to Grapevine To subscribe to Grapevine, the discussion list concerned with matters computing, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe Grapevine] in the subject line. * To subscribe to LANGline To subscribe to LANGline, which discusses modern languages, translation and editing in non-English languages, please e-mail Electric Editors at: ElectricEds@bigfoot.com with [Subscribe LANGline] in the subject line. * Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.ikingston.demon.co.uk/ee/ > Back issues of all three mailing lists are available on the Mailing Lists archive page. --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 1999, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, Iain Brown Compilation (c) 1999, The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 5.1 Next issue: 16 January 2000 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=