=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 5, no. 23 (18 June 2000) Editorial mailing list (digest version) Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A [2lf] Capitalisation: "The" Royal Society? [2lg] Capitalisation: "The" Netherlands? [Offshoot of [2lf] Capitalisation: "The" Royal Society?] [2lh] US/UK English: hyphens and ens [2lj] Hectares and acres [2lk] Units of measurement [Offshoot of [2lj] Hectares and acres] [2lm] Capitalisation of every word [Offshoot of [2lg] Capitalisation: "The" Netherlands?] [2ln] Negative figures [2lo] Separate columns for units in a table? [2lp] Copyright in electronic documents [2lq] Spaced versus closed up em dash [2lr] Quotation marks for multi-paragraph quotes [2ls] Either/or Business matters [4dj] Web editors' responsibilities [4dl] Advice re. project management [4dm] Advice re. editing [4dn] Audioproofing rates [5] Bookmarks [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2] Q&A ----------------------------------------------------- ** [2lf] Capitalisation: "The" Royal Society? Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Bruce Goatly, ppage@goatly.fsbusiness.co.uk Eddie Kent writes: > I just edited a paper by someone who thanked The Royal Society > for its help. I turned The into the, because it seemed to shout > at me. Was I right? I was advised last year by the person responsible for style at the Royal Society that the usage will be changing this year to a capital 'T' on 'The', so I shall have to conform, much as I detest the idea... ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Lionel Browne, lionel.browne@sand-con.demon.co.uk Another body that likes its 'The' capitalized is The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors - that's at least one thing I learned in my year there as Publishing Director... ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Iwan Thomas, iwan@frame-uk.demon.co.uk It's still "the Royal Society of Chemistry" though! ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 15 June 2000 From: Ian Kingston, i.kingston@ntlworld.com But "The Institute of Physics" (at least when I was there). ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 15 June 2000 From: Eddie Kent, eddiekent@supanet.com So it looks as though I should change 'the' back to 'The'. I'll try to remember. What a pity I have such a lousy memory. Perhaps with such a daft rule it now ought to read 'the The Royal Society'. ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 15 June 2000 From: Corinne Orde, c.orde@btinternet.com > Perhaps with such a daft rule it now ought to read 'the The > Royal Society'. It probably will once it decides to call itself the TRS. ------------------------- Date: Thurs, 15 June 2000 From: Tony Balazs, tony@rothstein.co.uk This makes me wonder whether the band "The The" should really be "the The" or possibly "the The The". +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lg] Capitalisation: "The" Netherlands? [Offshoot of [2lf] Capitalisation: "The" Royal Society?] Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Joy Burrough-Boenisch, burrough@bos.nl Muriel Bal wrote: > I would spell The Netherlands - short for Kingdom of The > Netherlands or Koninkrijk der Nederlanden in Dutch. I find it > an intrinsic part of the country's name in English. So, by analogy: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and The United States of America? Logic is no help on the vexed question of whether or not to capitalise the/The Netherlands. I wage a personal campaign by omitting the 'the' wherever possible, particularly in addresses. I have never seen 'The United Kingdom' or 'The USA' in addresses, but 'The Netherlands', instead of 'Netherlands' is common. If I must use the 'the', I opt for lower case, having been instructed to do so by the translation office of the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs when I arrived here over 20 years ago. Up to then I'd stuck to Oxford and Australian Government usage. I don't lose any sleep worrying which is 'right' or 'wrong', however, and if instructed to do so, will capitalise. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lh] US/UK English: hyphens and ens Date: Thurs, 8 June 2000 From: Sabra Bissette Ledent, sbledent@sprint.ca Many, many thanks to all of you for your instructions on conquering Find/Replace and wild cards. Like so many people, I guess, I get so caught up in trying to keep up with my wordload that I don't take the time to look for and then master the short- cuts. Can anyone recommend a book that would in itself be a short-cut in putting together some snappy new macros? I would be forever grateful. ------------------------ Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Carlotta Shearson, spock@aosi.com Don't laugh, but when I first started writing Word macros, I learned a lot from _Macro Magic in Microsoft Word 6 & 7: A Kid's Only Guide to Writing Macros_ by Laura Bufano Edge. I also like _The Underground Guide to Word for Windows_ by Woody Leonard. For Visual Basic, I recently bought _Writing Word Macros_ by Steven Roman. ------------------------ Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Robert Webb, pluto@plutobks.demon.co.uk Katie Lewis writes > It's not quite that simple. You need to do a two-stage Find and > Replace (worth recording as a macro if you will need to use it > more than once). First do the search as outlined above and > replace the number-number with Find what text formatted in > (e.g.) red (or any other attribute that you don't actually have > or want anywhere in the document). Then search for all hyphens > in red (or whatever you chose) and replace them with en rules. > Finally reset the colour (or whatever) for the whole document. > (If you're nervous and want to scan the document first by eye, > the colour is very helpful.) Certainly this is the least complicated way to convert hyphens to en rules in elisions. The same principle can be used in a search/ replace to convert irritating things like parenthesised note numbers (_why_ do authors do that, even when their briefed not to?!) to superscript, no parens. You just need to keep an eye out for any parenthesised numbers in the text which need to be retained. > More simply - in the Find/Replace dialog box, select En dash on > the Special list, or type ^=. Or in Word 98, just type alt and the hyphen key to get an en rule. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Gillian Clarke, 101625.3601@compuserve.com Continuing the N rule thread. It is perhaps worth mentioning that the (Mac) systems used by some designer/typesetters alter N rules from PC files to a hyphen. I therefore always key 2 hyphens for an N rule and 3 hyphens for the rare occasions when I need an M rule. (And I include in my notes to the typesetter an instruction to convert them to N and M rules.) An indexer with whom I work a lot, now keys 2 hyphens in the page ranges. I just check to make sure that they are all there, as sometimes one (including moi) forgets. Perhaps indexers out there would like to comment on how bothersome this would be for them? I added the second hyphen to an index recently compiled for me; it was a last-minute commission and I didn't want to add to the indexer's work as I could deal with it fairly easily. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lj] Hectares and acres Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Ron Andrews, rja@osk2.3web.ne.jp Thanks to everyone for their very incisive answers and information. I had no idea how involved the world of measurements have been thus far. Not being born and raised into the metric world, though, one would think I'd be ready for anything ;-) Reminds me a bit also of the book _Longitude_, by Dava Sobel. I'm sure nearly every unit of measurement, whether of the earth, or otherwise, has it's own story to tell. I do have a related question here. Is there any difference, then, between using square kilometers or hectares to indicate the size in area of a particular piece of land. Is it merely dependent on its general size, so that if really large, sq. kilometers should be used, and if really small, hectares might be more useful. The degree of accuracy desired seems to be one of the criteria. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Nick Round-Turner, wordwork@xtra.co.nz The choice between hectares or square kilometres is a matter of scale (orders of magnitude) and precision rather than accuracy. If you are describing the area of a farm property in parts of Australia or the high country of New Zealand or the rangelands of the USA you might go for square kilometres if you're pressed for space in your text. Otherwise you'd be running into 5-digit numbers. But I imagine most farms in Japan are relatively small, so hectares would be appropriate, as they would for an average farm in New Zealand. The area of a large national park, a city, a county, province or prefecture would be described in square kilometres. When surveying, to establish legal boundaries and areas, greater precision is called for, so the area of an urban property would probably be defined in square metres to a couple of decimal places. The accuracy of measurement is only as good as the equipment used to do the measuring. If you pace it out in yards or metres the precision is no better than yards or metres (not inches or centimetres). The accuracy depends on the length and consistency of your stride. If you measure with surveying equipment you can achieve greater precision (if you want it) and you do achieve greater accuracy. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lk] Units of measurement [Offshoot of [2lj] Hectares and acres] Date: Mon, 12 June 2000 From: Julia Hubble, Jbhubble1@aol.com Josephine Bacon writes: > namely that Imperial measurements are much more user-friendly > than metric because they are based on human measurements (foot, > inch (thumb), etc.) and imperial are based on some arbitrary > scientific measurement Please.... for metric the only times table I need to know is my ten times table. Far more user friendly. For imperial I needed to know all sorts of difficult math. (And I am old enough to have used imperial, and pounds, shillings and pence. Thank godness those days are behind us.) ------------------------ Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com I still prefer Imperial measures and think the Americans are wise to keep them, even if they use the wrong gallon and have simplified their system of weights. Divide 15 tons 3 hundredweight 2 quarters and 8 pounds by 7. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Ian Kingston, i.kingston@ntlworld.com NASA, which lost one of its Mars probes because one group of people worked in Imperial and another worked in metric, might disagree about the wisdom of this. Still - all units of measurement are arbitrary, and many disciplines (not least astronomy, with its AU, light year and parsec) use their own private units for convenience. As editors we need to be aware of these details and not blindly impose our own personal preferences. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Susan Cauchi, cauchi@wave.co.nz > Divide 15 tons 3 hundredweight 2 quarters and 8 pounds by 7. If (as I was taught at school) 1 ton = 20 hundredweight, 1 hundredweight = 4 quarters, 1 quarter = 28 pounds, 1 pound = 16 ounces, then the answer (if my pencil and paper arithmetic has served me well) is: 2 tons, 3 hundredweight, 1 quarter, 13 pounds, and 2 2/7 ounces. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk > the answer (if my pencil and paper arithmetic has served me > well) is: > > 2 tons, 3 hundredweight, 1 quarter, 13 pounds, and 2 2/7 > ounces. But one of the nice things about no longer being a 10 year old in a Scottish primary school is that I don't have to do this kind of thing any more! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lm] Capitalisation of every word [Offshoot of [2lg] Capitalisation: "The" Netherlands?] Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Joy Burrough-Boenisch, burrough@bos.nl Muriel Bal's comment: > capitalisation in Dutch is far less used than in English. raises another issue. I believe that Dutch and British English capitalise much less than American English. Can EDliners confirm my suspicion that the North American tendency is to capitalise every word in newspaper headlines and in the titles of articles in academic journals? And does this usage look old-fashioned to Brits? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2ln] Negative figures Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: David A Vaughan, david_a.vaughan@virgin.net I'm still on my numbers/maths learning curve. How is 'minus 3.8 million (abbreviated) pounds (sterling)' written correctly? Is it either -L3.8m or L-3.8m or neither (some spaces to take into account). [I realise I've typed a hyphen here - how do you get a minus sign or N into an email?] --- Moderator's note: a capital 'L' has been substituted in these messages for the pound sign, to avoid problems with e-mail transmission.---IDB ------------------------ Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com I would place the minus sign before the pound sign, just as I would if I was writing out a money sum: L72.05 - L3.80 = L69.25 L0.00 - L3.80 = -L3.80 You nearly got pounds, shillings and pence. A minus sign, as opposed to a hyphen isn't available in e-mail at present. It won't be until 16-bit fonts are in general use. I'm not holding my breath. You could, of course, use an attachment. But attachments shouldn't be used to mailing lists. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lo] Separate columns for units in a table? Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Yateendra Joshi, yateen@teri.res.in In a table in which each *row* has a different unit, should the units be displayed in a separate column immediately to the right of the row heads? For instance, in a table of data about a country, the row headings consist of such items as population (millions), area (square kilometres), literacy (%), life expectancy (years), and so on, should the units go in a separate column or be given as a part of the row heading? All opinions, preferably with reasons for the preference, are welcome. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lp] Copyright in electronic documents Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From Kerry Munro, PaulWaide@compuserve.com Does anyone have any information about copyright for electronic documents please? In particular: 1. Is permission required from the publishers of hard copy to reproduce material on an intranet? (If yes, should one request the pdf file from the publisher rather than scan the material in?) 2. Is permission required for foreign-language translations of the original hard copy material, again to post these translations on an intranet? Does anyone know of any website providing this kind of information or relevant guidelines? ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk In theory it is no different in legal terms from copyright in printed documents, although of course more difficult to control in practice because copying is now technically so easy for everyone. > 1. Is permission required from the publishers of hard copy to > reproduce material on an intranet? Permission is required, unless you can argue it as 'fair use' (like limited photocopying for personal use). This could depend on various factors - how big is your intranet (4 machines or 4000?), how large or vital an extract is it of the published work - i.e. there is human judgement involved here. A hard-copy analogy would be large research organizations that seek permission from a journal publisher to photocopy dozens or hundreds of copies of a particular paper that is of interest to them. From the point of view of copyright on the contents it does not matter whether you scan it in or download the page from a publisher's website, or indeed from the author's website. > 2. Is permission required for foreign-language translations of > the original hard copy material, again to post these > translations on an intranet? Copyright will remain either with the author or with the publisher of the original version, depending on the nature of the agreement between them. For example, the author may have transferred copyright completely to the publisher, who may have sold the foreign language rights to someone else. Alternatively, the author may have transferred only 'first serial rights' to the original publisher. You really need to contact them both. Again the issue of 'fair use' comes in. > Does anyone know of any website providing this kind of > information or relevant guidelines? There was a useful talk on copyright at last year's SFEP conference but I cannot at the moment lay hands on the speaker's handouts, which contained useful information. Perhaps someone else can. There are loads of books on copyright law - I don't know of websites - but if you are going to come across much of this sort of thing you need to take advice from a specialist lawyer. It is a thorny problem because copyright law varies in different jurisdictions and its interpretation is not straightforward and is rapidly evolving. It is worth paying a lawyer's fee rather than being taken to court by a large publisher wanting to make an example of you. ----------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com Electronic documents are protected by copyright in the same way as paper documents. 1. Somebody, frequently the author rather than the publisher, owns the copyright. Their permission is needed. 2. Permission is needed to publish a translation of any copyrighted document. You may want to consult a lawyer specialising in copyrights. I am not a lawyer. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lq] Spaced versus closed up em dash Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Yateendra Joshi, yateen@teri.res.in Though some typographers, including Bringhurst and Stone, recommend putting a space before and a space after each en dash when a pair of them is used in place of brackets [en dash] as in this example [en dash] is the *em* dash, when used to signal a summary, an abrupt change, a surprising conclusion, and so on, also treated similarly? To my mind, there is a good case for setting the em dash close up, without a space before or after, to emphasize that element of abruptness as it were---or am I splitting hair? ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Josephine Bacon, bacon@langservice.com In most American typographic style, the em dash is set without spaces before and after. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Lane Lester, llester@mindspring.com I've personally preferred no spaces with em dashes, but I've felt somewhat uncomfortable about it, knowing that so many prefer the spaces. In the magazine that I publish, I just switched to Adobe Electra for the body text, and its em dash comes with a bit of space already built in. So now I have the best of both worlds: I leave the space out, but it's there anyway! ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com I understand to be an alternative to , so I wouldn't surround with spaces. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk I don't think the em dash needs to be spaced, and in many house styles it isn't. Some styles use a very thin (hair) space round it. The use of the em dash as a punctuation mark, rather than the spaced en dash is perhaps now rather old-fashioned: I generally come across it in very traditional house styles. One reason for inserting the space may be to makes sure that the typesetting software recognizes it as a suitable place to break a line - it might well not, if closed up. But I don't think this is a very good reason. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2lr] Quotation marks for multi-paragraph quotes Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Iwan Thomas, iwan@frame-uk.demon.co.uk How should quotation marks be handled for multi-paragraph quotes? Should there be: a) separate quotation marks for each paragraph: "Paragraph A" "Paragraph B" b) One set of enclosing quotation marks: "Paragraph A Paragraph B" or c) An opening quotation mark for the first paragraph and a set of quotation marks for the second paragraph. "Paragraph A "Paragraph B" a) and b) seem more logical, but I've got an idea that c) may be correct, although I can't find any authority for it. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Alison Black, alison@bailihe.freeserve.co.uk Unless the rules have changed, only (c) is correct, if by 'second' you mean 'last' (paragraph). To make it clearer: "Paragraph A "Paragraph B "Paragraph C" (I assume you are not talking about displayed quotations, which do not require quote marks at all.) ----------------------- Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com I couldn't find anything in a quick glance at Copy-Editing by Judith Butcher. In the Copyeditor's Handbook Amy Einsohn writes: When a automation quotation occurs within running text, an opening double quotation mark appears at the beginning of the quotation and a closing double quotation mark appears at the end. If a quotation extends over a paragraph break, an opening double quotation mark appears at the beginning of each paragraph, and a closing double quotation mark appears only at the end of the last paragraph in the quotation. (In expository works, however, a multiparagraph quotation is usually printed as an extract.) 2. A refinement of this principle is offered by _The Associated Press Stylebook_, which requires a closing double quotation mark at the end of the first paragraph of a multiparagraph quotation, if the words within quotation marks at the end of that first paragraph do not constitute a complete sentence. Both Butcher and Einsohn deal with displayed quotations at some length, and display is often the preferred solution for long extracts. ----------------------- Date: Sat, 17 June 2000 From: Simon Cauchi, cauchi@wave.co.nz Alison Black cites no authority, but her advice is supported by the Oxford Writers' Dictionary entry on "quotations"; the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th edn, paras 10.29-32; the U.S. Government Printing Office, A Manual of Style, para. 8.134; the Australian Government Publishing Service, Style Manual, 5th edn, paras 6.187 and 6.200; Harrap's English Punctuation and Hyphenation, pp. 105-6; Eric Partridge, You Have a Point There: A Guide to Punctuation and Its Allies, p. 126; and no doubt elsewhere. I have not found any contrary advice. Hart's Rules doesn't treat the matter, but does mention that in some special circumstances even displayed quotations require quotation marks. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [2ls] Either/or Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: Lesley Butland, les@butland.freeserve.co.uk Is 'either' always used when there are just 2 alternatives or can it introduce more? I'm working on a piece at the moment where the instruction is to 'use either a, b or c'. I'm inclined to drop the 'either', but then readers won't realise until the end of the phrase that they are being offered an alternative. The Concise Oxford Dictionary has either being used when there are 2 alternatives. What do others think? I'd be glad of your opinions. ----------------------- Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8, 38 (authorised version) I regard the preceding passage as authority for the use of either, or, or, or, . . as well as neither, nor, nor, . . ., nor. ----------------------- Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: Lesley Butland, les@butland.freeserve.co.uk Thanks, David for your reply which is more inspired than you could realise, as I'm working on the Church of England's new prayer book! My only quibble is that the authorised version uses an archaic form of language, and this particular instruction needs to be in modern English. ----------------------- Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: David Ibbetson, ibbetson@idirect.com The modern translations reword and avoid the long list of NORs. To my mind there's nothing particularly archaic in that para., but it's a matter of judgement. Would a bulletted list solve the problem? * Don't be rude to the bishop * Don't be rude to the bishop's wife . . . . * Dont be rude to the curate ----------------------- Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: Jane Kerr, bywater@zetnet.co.uk Copy-editing the word of God, eh? All I can say is heaven help you with the author queries! ----------------------- Date: Mon, 19 June 2000 From: Michele Clarke, Michele.Clarke@btinternet.com Either/or I thought should only be used for two things. Also, 'alternatives' can be used for two things, alter meaning 'other'. If there are more than two things, the word should be 'choices'. ----------------------- Date: Mon, 19 June 2000 From: Kathleen Lyle, Kathleen@klyle.demon.co.uk Michele Clarke writes: > Either/or I thought should only be used for two things. I think modern English now expects to follow this 'two choices' rule, despite the elegant examples to the contrary from earlier centuries. I'm inclined to agree that 'either' may be redundant, i.e. 'use x OR y OR z 'should be enough. But as you say, this may not be giving the reader enough of a clue. It depends a bit on the layout, especially how long the choices are. If you wanted to be really specific, you could use the bullet list idea and say something like: You can use one of the following [add suitable noun]: * a or * b or * c But this may look more like a laboratory manual than a prayer book (reflecting my own editorial background, of course) and would jar if there is only an occasional example of it. Another way would be to start with the clue: You may use one of three [nouns]: a, b or c.' I'll be interested to hear what you decide to do. ----------------------- Date: Mon, 19 June 2000 From: Simon Cauchi, cauchi@wave.co.nz Besides the King James Bible, I have found a similar example of "either" followed by multiple choices in Trilby, George Du Maurier's novel first published in 1894: Enthusiast as he was, he could only worship one god at a time. It was either Michael Angelo, Phidias, Paul Veronese, Tintoret, Raphael, or Titian -- never a modern -- moderns didn't exist! Although Du Maurier's language has some old-fashioned characteristics, his syntax strikes me as perfectly modern. ---[4] Business matters --------------------------------------- ** [4dj] Web editors' responsibilities Date: Tues, 13 June 2000 From: Judyth Mermelstein, espresso@e-scape.net Sarah Hall asked: > As well as straightforward proofing (original text in book form > against what appears on the website), there would be some > navigation checking for links and general usability. Can you > tell me if this is what web editors on the whole expect to do > and are able to do at home? What other responsibilities might > they have? Depending on your needs, a Web editor might also be expected to correct errors in HTML tags and remove superfluous tags (often inserted by programs which export to HTML), verify the appearance and function of the pages with different browsers and monitors, check links to external sites, convert or edit graphics files, FTP the corrected files to the server... > Also what is the range of hourly fees you have come across? On some projects, the editor is only required to deal with the text aspects; on others, he or she is assumed to be capable of dealing with every aspect of site construction. In the first case, the work would be done at that person's normal editing rate, which depends on the editor's experience and the complexity of the subject matter. All the person would need for this is any browser and an Internet connection. (In fact, the editing could often be done with any old computer and a text editor on e-mailed files if the person knew their HTML fairly well.) Editing rates here in eastern Canada run from around $20 for an ordinary proofreader to $75 or more for an experienced editor with a technical specialty. In the latter case, the rates are also highly variable, partly depending on experience and specialty. The requirements in terms of equipment, software and proficiency at the technical side of the Web is much greater: typically, one has several computers with various monitors, browsers, and even modems so as to check the display and loading time of the pages in question, as well as a variety of graphics programs and converters, etc. Somebody just entering the field might ask for as little as $25 an hour; highly experienced people regularly command $100. Either way, there is no guarantee that these technical people will be equally proficient at the language aspect, although some are. The rates are quoted in Canadian dollars (about 2/3 of U.S.). Unfortunately, I can't be any more precise, except to say that I straddle the two categories and would charge $50 an hour for constructing or revising a relatively straightforward site -- i.e., no work in Java, Javascript, Perl, etc. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4dl] Advice re. project management Date: Thurs, 8 June 2000 From: Tony Balazs, tbalazs@netcomuk.co.uk Would anyone be able to give me some advice about getting into Project Management in publishing, possibly IT publishing, as a career for the first time? I have 10 years' experience leading group workshops, consulting to groups and occasionally companies, educating and training adults, report writing, and working as a therapist. I also have one year's experience in IT (as a network consultant to a small company). I am a published (co)-author of a technical book about Essential Oils (Churchill Livingstone) and have been Scientific Editor on a technical journal for 8 years. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4dm] Advice re. editing Date: Fri, 9 June 2000 From: Meghan McKendry McKendryM@marshallcenter.org I would like to get a sense of how prepared / what I need to do to prepare to enter the job market as an editor. I currently have a Bachelors and Master's degree plus course work as a doctoral student in English and Communications. I have independently taught in a writing program for three years at a mid-size university, I have 3 years of editing experience attained while I was in graduate school, and I am currently in rights and permissions with less than 1 year of experience. I am often involved in many editorial projects in my current rights and permissions position. Additionally, this position is overseas in an academic institution and the position requires interaction with a multicultural student and faculty body. Before I enter the job market (looking for a position as a junior editor, assistant editor, or publishing related area), I would like to get an impression of what my marketability is. Any assistance/advice is much appreciated. ----------------------- Date: Sun, 18 June 2000 From: Dennis Webb, WDwwebb@aol.com This is an area of employment about which I'd like to know more. Specifically, how does one get into the field. I'm not a complete novice. I have years of experience in editing technical manuals. How does one go about finding and getting assignments. Is there such a thing as a single site to which one can go to find out information? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ** [4dn] Audioproofing rates Date: Fri, 16 June 2000 From: Helen Ough Dealy, words_that_work@xtra.co.nz Can anyone give me information about the range of rates that can be charged for audioproofing - listening to a tape and proofing the transcription against the tape? ---[5] Bookmarks ---------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 June 2000 From: Anne Brown annebrown@rayshill.com Online references Someone recently posted up addresses of internet sites where one can check Journal names and abbreviations, which I have inadvertently deleted, please could you post these again. ---[6] Just for fun -------------------------------------------- Units of measurement, no. 4 2000 pounds of Chinese soup = Won Ton ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline provides the opportunity for an online discussion of matters editorial and editorial business. To post to the mailing list via ListBot, use the following address: ee_edline@listbot.com For digest subscribers, please post your EDline messages to: bywater@zetnet.co.uk Topics might include areas such as Grammar, Spelling, American English or Punctuation. Messages should be pertinent to the basic premise of the list; they may be withheld, or redirected if more pertinent to one of the other mailing lists. The spelling and grammar of messages will *not* be corrected, but some editing of length may be undertaken. The sections of the EDline digest are as follows: [2] Q & A -- questions and answers [3] FYI -- items of general interest [4] Business matters -- items of a business nature [5] Bookmarks -- useful Web pages [6] Just for fun -- time for letting hair down! 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