=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 6, no. 36 Editorial mailing list (digest version) Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Business matters [4fb] Politely offering copyedits (languages) [6] Just for fun [8] Administration =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[4] Business matters ---------------------------------------- ** [4fb] Politely offering copyedits (languages) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 From: Linda Lowenthal, LLowenthal@phx.com I'm not crazy about the thought of spending time in countries where I don't speak the language (which owing to the previously mentioned problem is the majority of countries), because my attempts to use the bits of the language I'd try to learn would leave me in a constant state of embarrassment and anxiety. Even though I know, and know the people I'd be speaking to would know, that there's nothing wrong with speaking a new language (or even one's native language) imperfectly! I just can't help it. That is, I have trouble learning other languages in part because I can't shed my inhibitions or self-imposed demands for perfection (ha) enough to actually practice speaking them ---------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 From: Michelle Zacharias zacharias, michelle@yaskawa.co.jp As an ex-pat living in Asia, I see all kinds of people struggling with languages and this is a very common problem. OFten those who have studied the most and are strongest in grammar and vocabulary don't speak, and those who butcher any structural base speak like a blue streak regardless of their mistakes. Why? The 1st group demands perfection of themselves. I tend to be in the 2nd group and have learned that a smile communicates more than any structurally correct sentence. Speaking from the heart and using gestures has worked well for me even though I don't speak Vietnamese, Malay, Fukken, Mandarin, Korean etc. If I can say basic greetings and thank you's, the listener is often just happy to know that I tried to be polite and respectful. SOmetimes this backfires though and they start speaking to me at full speed about something because now they think I am familiar with the language in question. Linda Lowenthal wrote: > I'm not crazy about the thought of spending time in countries > where I don't speak the language (which owing to the previously > mentioned problem is the majority of countries), because my > attempts to use the bits of the language I'd try to learn would > leave me in a constant state of embarrassment and anxiety. Even > though I know, and know the people I'd be speaking to would > know, that there's nothing wrong with speaking a new language > (or even one's native language) imperfectly! I just can't help > it. Don't let this hold you back! If you are worried baout the language, join a tour. That'S what my Japanese friends do. No language barriers that way. Visit friends who live abroad. Once you try it and have some success maybe you won't be so fearful. Big cities will have more English speakers, but the rural areas might provide the chance for a few more heart-to-heart encounters. HINT Write things down. Many people study English but can't speak it Gotta go! Lunchtime --- I forgot to add: Go out for dinner in an area close by like Chinatown or Little Kiev where many people may or not be able to speak English. Or try Montreal or Quebec city where some things are familar but yet different enough for the average North American to provide the sense of romance and mystique found in the unknown. OR, no offense meant here, try the UK. Yes, everybody speaks English but the money is not in dollars and your speech and vocabulary will mark you as a "foreigner". I know that I found myself being more aware of my language and my being a foreigner in ENgland than in Asia. Sorry, I got carried away. I love travelling! Michelle, who for all her braggadacio still found herself mute and reluctant to speak in the Paris airport ----------------------- Date: Tues, 21 Aug 2001 From: Peter Best, pbest@idl.net.au You'll get a better response from the locals if you try to use their language rather than expecting them to know yours, however most countries these days are teaching the language of the imperial capital to their children, so finding an English speaker is rarely a problem. As for learning, if you have the time, do it "in-country" - that way you don't have to wait til the next class to practice! Notice how western TV News organistaions hardly ever need to translate and subtitle "local colour" or eyewitness reports any more? The irony is that there are more likely to be subtitles or voiced-over translations where the talent is a native English speaker with a strong regional accent. ---------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Sept 2001 From: Michael Hall, babash@btinternet.com This sounds like good general advice, but I wouldn't recommend following it in some parts of France. ---[6] Just for fun -------------------------------------------- Piffling trifles, no. 19 The combination "ough" can be pronounced in nine different ways the following sentence contains them all: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed." +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A position you'll really go for Date: Tues, 14 Aug 2001 From: Moira Vekony, Moira7777@aol.com This came to me via another editorial mailing list, does it sound familiar? Editorial slave The successful candidate will be able to: - read minds - proofread a 270-page document in one and a half days ("proofreading" includes correcting all infelicitous phrasings except the ones the client likes -- in determination of which, see above -- as well as formatting eighteen complex tables and conforming wildly inconsistent usage to a standard to be determined following completion of the work) - verify the accuracy of statistics presented without reference to a source - correct the same thing three times due to version control problems - understand that a person with a half a business degree and a C+ in college English is and always will be more knowledgeable about the English language than a seasoned editorial professional - edit copy to fit the exact specifications of a design department that understands that text is first of all a design element and is not really read by anyone - liaise between a team of twelve people who are not on speaking terms with each other and who have dramatically different senses of usage, punctuation, structure, time, organization, respect, etc. - work on weekends and holidays -- _especially_ weekends and holidays, because nobody else will ever be ready with anything anytime other than Friday at 5:06 PM - accept willingly, graciously, and humbly the blame for all errors, including ones that were put into the text by a client who made changes after receiving it back on the way to the press The successful victim will be a self-motivated team player (a mind-reader who always does what the client wants before the client knows what he wants) with a love for language, advanced degrees in e-commerce and Linotype technology, and a total lack of self-respect. Pay is $12.06 per hour, and you should consider yourself lucky, because that's almost as much as we pay our janitor. Please forward your qualifications along with your age, weight, physical measurements, and blood type to our email address, which is listed on our web page (email us for the URL). ---------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 From: Mark Hendy, markhendy1@compuserve.com Re Moira's "EDITORIAL SLAVE", perhaps the post has fallen vacant because of the following (the source of the piece is unknown to me; a pal in academia, at a loose end as usual during July, August and September, passed it on; anybody seen it before?): Supervisors of a publishing firm are trying to work out why no one noticed that one of their employees had been sitting dead at his desk for FIVE DAYS before anyone asked if he was feeling okay. George Turklebaum, 51, who had been employed as a proof-reader at a New York firm for 30 years, had a heart attack in the open-plan office he shared with 23 other workers. He quietly passed away on Monday but nobody noticed until Saturday morning when an office cleaner asked why he was still working during the weekend. His boss Elliot Wachiaski said: "George was always the first guy in each morning and the last to leave at night, so no one found it unusual that he was in the same position all that time and didn't say anything. "He was always absorbed in his work and kept much to himself." A post mortem examination revealed that he had been dead for five days after suffering a coronary. Ironically, George was proofreading manuscripts of medical textbooks when he died. You may want to give your co-workers a nudge occasionally. Moral of the story: Don't work too hard. Nobody notices anyway. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 From: Nancy Boston, boston.editorial@ntlworld.com Mark Hendy wrote: > Re Moira's "EDITORIAL SLAVE", perhaps the post has fallen > vacant because of the following (the source of the piece is > unknown to me; a pal in academia, at a loose end as usual > during July, August and September, passed it on; anybody seen > it before?): I first saw this story posted to SFEPLine (appropriately enough) last January. The person who posted it said that a friend had sent it to him in December 2000. A comprehensive debunking can be found at < http://www.snopes2.com/ > by searching for "dead proof reader" It's important to put "proof" and "reader" in as separate words, by the way. ---------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 From: Judy Stein, jstein@panix.com Yes, I've seen it before. It's been circulating on the Internet for a while. Great story, but (fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective) it's a hoax. For further information see: < http://www.snopes2.com/horrors/gruesome/fivedays.htm > Not to ruin anybody's breakfast, but as this page points out, common sense should tell us that it would be impossible for a dead body to go unnoticed in an office for more than a day, given the effects of decomposition. I highly recommend the www.snopes.com site for checking out this kind of "urban legend" or any story you see that seems dubious, especially those that are spread around the Net by email. The folks who run the site are remarkably thorough (and their reports are extremely well-written and often witty; they're a treat to read). They aren't knee-jerk debunkers; if they can't determine a story's veracity, they say so. And they go to considerable trouble to document their findings, whether debunking or confirming. > Moral of the story: Don't work too hard. Nobody notices anyway. The moral of the story, however, has a lot of merit! ---------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 From: Richard, rgco-@aol.com This version [of the Editorial Slave] is a new one on me but familiar insofar as the rate has gone up as it is now on a par with the janitor. Well done to whomsoever achieved a rate increase. --- Thanks also to James Harbeck and Madeleine Wood and for their contributions. ---[8] Administration ------------------------------------------ EDline is a discussion list about editorial and business matters for members of the publishing community. It focuses on issues of interest to professional editors, proofreaders, typesetters, writers and those in associated jobs. To post to the mailing list via Topica, use the following address: EDline@topica.com For digest subscribers, please post your EDline messages to: bywater@ntlworld.com * Accented characters: When writing accented characters, please adopt the following convention to show the accent after the character: / acute \ grave ^ circumflex ~ tilde " umlaut/diaeresis , cedilla % o slash aa a ring sz German double s | long s _ line above letter * Homepage and back issues: Visit the Electric Editors at: < http://www.electriceditors.net/ > Archives of the EDline automated discussions can be found at: < http://www.topica.com/lists/EDline > All messages contributed to EDline, whether automated or digest versions, are archived on the Electric Editors' Website. These archives can be found at: < http://www.electriceditors.net/EDline/ > --------- ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 2001, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996, 1997, 2000 Iain Brown Compilation (c) 2001, Iain Brown / The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 6.36 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=