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  EDline Vol. 7, no. 35     (5 February 2002)

  Editorial mailing list (digest version)
  Published by the Electric Editors
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  Contents:

         Q & A
  [2ry]  Gerunds and you / your
            [Was [2rq] 'You' or 'your']

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---[2]-- Q & A --------------------------------------------------


** [2ry] Gerunds and you / your
            [Was [2rq] 'You' or 'your']

         Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002
         From: Elizabeth Murphy, emmurphy@ozemail.com.au

David King wrote:

> One thing I have noticed a lot lately, is that people keep
> putting the word 'you' instead of 'your', e.g. 'Get you free
> gift here'.

In the same vein, how about 'I was worried about him colliding
with the child' versus 'I was worried about his colliding with
the child'? I would use the latter, particularly in writing, on
the assumption that it was the 'colliding' I was worried about
and not 'him'. However, I understand either is considered correct
now. True/False?


         ----------------------
         Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002
         From: Damaris Wilson, Wilsondidi@aol.com

I agree with you, Elizabeth, but I believe there'd be some
confusion on the part of our readers (not to mention
merriment...). 

As ever, 'consider your audience'. I'd be likely to use 'him'
verbally, and 'his' in the more formal, written, arena. 


         ------------------------
         Date: Thurs, 31 Jan 2002
         From: Anna Beth McCormack, mccormack@goulburn.net.au

The question here isn't about you/your but about gerunds in
general, and I'm afraid that the gerund is going the way of the
subjunctive. RIP.

Gerund 'his colliding' is correct, especially as the main worry
is the collision.

What about 'I was worried about him/his studying too hard'? Some
would argue that 'studying' is a gerund, so 'his' is correct.
Others would argue that 'him' is the object of 'about' and
'studying too hard' is a participial phrase describing 'him'.
Popular usage seems to be extending blurry cases like this into a
general principle that gerunds don't exist, unfortunately.


         ------------------------
         Date: Thurs, 31 Jan 2002
         From: Nick Hudson, hudson@c031.aone.net.au

The gerund is certainly not dying, Anna, though the label may be.

'Seeing is believing'. Clearly two nouns. Whether we call them
verb-nouns, gerunds or -ing nouns doesn't matter.

The problem only arises when the difference in sense is so subtle
that it doesn't immediately identify itself. When the difference
in sense is clear we don't have any difficulty: 'I saw him
knitting' (participle) is very different from 'I saw his
knitting' (gerund), and nobody would be in doubt about which was
appropriate in a given situation.

Subjunctives aren't dying either. Whether we say 'If I was you'
or 'If I were you' the 'mood' is still the same. It is certainly
not (as some people who ought to know better have said) a past
imperfect. For a start, it is all about the present and the
future, a hypothetical. The normal word for this is
'subjunctive'. Only the form has changed.


         ---------------------
         Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002
         From: Esther Shchory, odelias@bezeqint.net

I so glad to here this is correct (see below). I have always
tended to his for a such a case without knowing why. And recently
I have been left out in the cold feeling a little pretentious.

(Most of my correct English was learnt from a well spoken
grandmother and I only started formally educating myself when I
started teaching ESL.)

In Israel there is no gerund, participle or subjunctive: we have
V1, V2, V3 which confuses the students almost as much as it does
me!

Could someone be kind enough to direct me to a good definition of
these terms.


         ---------------------
         Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002
         From: Jane Lyle, jlyle@indiana.edu

A good on-line source is

   < http://www.bartleby.com >

It includes several books on English usage.


         ---------------------
         Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002
         From: Michael Hall, Babash@btinternet.com

I swear by Partridge's "Usage and Abusage". He was a man a goodly
dollop of common sense.


         ---------------------
         Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002
         From: Eddie Kent, edlineek@aol.com

Michael Hall writes: 

> I swear by Partridge's "Usage and Abusage". He was a man a
> goodly dollop of common sense. 

Not an excess of learning, though. Nothing wrong with that. All I
know about gerunds is that they hide in hedgerows and nip the
unwary in the ankle. 


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