=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EDline Vol. 8, no. 81 (1 September 2003) Editorial mailing list (digest version) Published by the Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Contents: Q & A [2yn] Advice on comma usage =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ---[2]-- Q & A -------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 From: Sue Innes, sueinnes@pacificcoast.net I keep coming up against a comma usage that bothers me. An example is in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying experience he is initiated into the music of nature . . . I feel the need to put in a comma after "experience", thus setting off the "but also" phrase. However, several authors in the book I am currently editing do not agree with me, and have similar sentences (sometimes including "not only") without the comma. Am I wrong? Or is this again a British vs N. American thing? Most of the authors have a British background. I'd be interested to hear others' views. ---------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 From: Jane Ornauer, jreditor@aol.com If you're going to put in the first comma, then I say you MUST put in the second. Or you could dispense with both commas. But not just the one! ---------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 From: Simon Cauchi, simon.cauchi@paradise.net.nz Sue Innes wrote: > in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying experience he is > initiated into the music of nature . . . This is wrong. Either add a comma after "terrifying" (not "experience") or delete the comma, so that it becomes either (1) in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying, experience he is initiated into the music of nature . . . or (2) in a sublime but also deeply terrifying experience he is initiated into the music of nature . . . Whether there should be a comma after "experience" is a different issue and has nothing to do with the comma after "sublime". There is no right or wrong answer about that. Some writers would want a comma there, some wouldn't. So we have two more possibilities, either (3) in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying, experience, he is initiated into the music of nature . . . or (4) in a sublime but also deeply terrifying experience, he is initiated into the music of nature . . . I don't think there is a difference between AmE and BrE in these particular points of punctuation (unlike the punctuation associated with closing quotation marks, where there certainly is such a difference). I recommend that you take your pick between (1), (2), and (4), but rule out (3). In other words, punctuate this with no commas, one comma (after "experience"), or two commas (the second after "terrifying"), but not three. ---------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 From: Chuck Brandstater, acreatyv1@earthlink.net To my knowledge, a comma after "sublime" mandates one after "terrifying"; with neither (which I consider preferable) or with both, a comma after "experience" (setting off the entire prepositional phrase, not just "but" and what follows it) seems to me to be preferable to its absence. ---------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 From: Judy Stein, jstein@panix.com Simon Cauchi wrote: > In other words, punctuate this with no commas, one comma (after > "experience"), or two commas (the second after "terrifying"), > but not three. I'd emphatically vote for one comma after "experience"; to my eye, it's the only choice that leaves the sentence smoothly readable. ---------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sept 2003 From: Anna McCormack, mccormack@goulburn.net.au If you must have commas, the second one should go after 'terrifying', so that 'sublime ... experience' reads as a whole, regardless of the inserted 'but also terrifying'. Really though, I wouldn't use a commas at all in this sentence---unless you wanted to emphasise 'but deeply terrifying'. Or I'd use a comma after 'experience' only, as there is a natural pause there. Even more really, I wouldn't structure the sentence like this, because overall it is too jerky (and unmusical) with commas actual or implied after 'sublime', 'terrifying' and 'experience'. It would be smoother to say: 'He is initiated into the music of nature in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying, experience.' It depends on what the main point of the sentence is, of course: the fact of initiation, or the nature of the experience. Your original sentence seems to be trying to have it both ways (hence the awkward phrasing), and maybe that is a problem throughout the book you are editing. ----------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sept 2003 From: Corinne Orde, c.orde@btinternet.com Sue Innes wrote: > in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying experience he is > initiated into the music of nature . . . I would dispense with all commas here. The sentence is short, uncomplicated and unambiguous. It flows better unpunctuated. Just goes to show how subjective good editorial practice can be. ---------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sept 2003 From: Sue Burnett, sburnett@glam.ac.uk I say none or both - but if you do use both it should be after 'terrifying' not 'experience'. The commas are being used to identify a sub-clause of the main sentence, which should still be readable without the sub-clause -- this is not the case if you put the comma after 'experience' as you would end up with: ...in a sublime...he is initiated into the music of nature... In this particular instance, to use both commas, thus: ...in a sublime, but also deeply terrifying, experience he is initiated into the music of nature... becomes cumbersome and is unattractive to read, so I'd recommend using no commas -- in another example, it may be more readable with both in place. I love this job! ---------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sept 2003 From: Tracey Dooley, Tracey.Dooley@lycos.co.uk Jane Ornauer wrote: > If you're going to put in the first comma, then I say you MUST > put in the second. Or you could dispense with both commas. But > not just the one! I agree! Personally, I would delete the first comma (after 'sublime') and insert one after 'experience'. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= END OF EDline 8.81 E-mail address for posting messages or replies: < edline-digest@electriceditors.net > Admin page: < http://www.electriceditors.net/edline/admin.htm > ** The views expressed in this mailing list are strictly those of the individual contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or of the Electric Editors. ** Articles (c) 2003, by individual contributors Design (c) 1996--2003 Iain Brown Compilation (c) 2003 Iain Brown / The Electric Editors =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=